OMS vs Halcyon

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Phoenix:
its not that you cant get them here, its the servicability of them, due to strict HSE (health and safety executive) rules regarding the use of al tanks in the UK, especially when used under high pressure u can find them, but you will have to send them to one of only a handful of places for the testing, and they require full tests every 2 years not every 5 years like steels,<Snip>

As Tibbs has already stated, this isn't true. Ali's are easy to get hold of in the UK and servicability is not an issue. I'm not sure where you got your info but it's wrong. You can even get CE approved AL80s from Germany that can be filled and tested in the UK without any problems.

My advice, get Luxfer Ali 7s.

You don't need anything bigger than a 40lb wing. I use a 40lb wing with twin 12's & stages etc and have no problems. I have a 55lb wing as well that is simply too big and sits in the back of my dive cupboard waiting for a set of twin 18s :wink:

BTW Custom Divers is a euphemism for complete bollox.

HTH
Rob.
 
RobK:
As Tibbs has already stated, this isn't true. Ali's are easy to get hold of in the UK and servicability is not an issue. I'm not sure where you got your info but it's wrong. You can even get CE approved AL80s from Germany that can be filled and tested in the UK without any problems.

My advice, get Luxfer Ali 7s.
Rob.

It depends, as far as I understand it Al 7's are imported from somewhere, and and I've had problems replacing mine in the past, although I currently have a couple of Al7's - they are a complete pain to get tested, as no-where locally does them, and they have to wait till I'm in Aberdeen.
As for whether or not they are ideal, it depends very much on what you intend putting into them. I have one with 16/50 in, and that makes them _very_ floaty, irratatingly so, and I'm not convinced that a 7 is quite big enough anyway, so I've just got a Faber 10 as a stage, which is better. For nitrox/O2 Al7's are fine - but they do have limitations
 
Manos said:
DO NOT :
DO NOT :
Dive steel doubles with wetsuit.
Dive Double inflators , double blader wings.
Dive Bungee wings.

Since you´re being so categorical...please explain WHY? with short uncomplicated sentences so that the pagans (=non DIR) can understand...

I´ve dived steel doubles with a wetsuit and see NO problem with it, what am I missing?
As for the rest...is there anything more to it then DIR gospel?
Have you ever used such wings and why did you stop?

If you find this post slightly inflamatory I suggest you go back to the above post and think about why...this was the general tek forum last time I looked...
 
Here is my opinion as to the difference between OMS & Halcyon. OMS makes a full line of equipment that accomidates a variety of divers and diving styles. Halcyon doesn't have a full line and their equipment is primarily directed at one particular diving style. Both make high quality gear, OMS just has more high quality products.
 
I haven't seen Manos on here since oh - about July 2003. Take a look at the dates, people.

I am far from an authoritative source on DIR issues. You're better to ask someone like MHK... however:

a) Steel doubles in a wetsuit opens you up to a world of hurt if you lose the use of your BC. Far better to have something you can swim up with an empty wing.

b) Dual bladder wings are just plain scary. Why would anyone want to rig an inflator behind them, out of the way, and even worse hooked up? A buddy of mine in England told me a story about a guy who did exactly the same thing and is now contemplating his future on two wheels, a wheelchair that is - I am sure it is pretty simple to work out the scenario. Hooked up second inflator, which got jammed between his back and the plate, hence uncontrolled ascent, blown off deco and a chopper ride.

c) Bungee wings are an entanglement hazard, and if you develop a hole near the bottom of the wing, they will force the air out. Without bungees, you can change position in the water column and still maintain bouyancy. Furthermore, they're unnecessary since you should be diving the proper size wing for the task at hand.

All three of those responses are worthy of seperate threads on their own, and in fact, are. Please feel free to do a search for more answers.

Cheers.
 
Ohh...sorry...didnt look at the dates...
As I´m in the process of purchasing a wing the topic interests me though...

Boogie711 said:
b) Dual bladder wings are just plain scary. Why would anyone want to rig an inflator behind them, out of the way, and even worse hooked up? A buddy of mine in England told me a story about a guy who did exactly the same thing and is now contemplating his future on two wheels, a wheelchair that is - I am sure it is pretty simple to work out the scenario. Hooked up second inflator, which got jammed between his back and the plate, hence uncontrolled ascent, blown off deco and a chopper ride.
Granted I´ve only looked at an OMS wing but both the inflators were in the front...could you explain in more detail please?

Bungee wings are an entanglement hazard, and if you develop a hole near the bottom of the wing, they will force the air out. Without bungees, you can change position in the water column and still maintain bouyancy.
Umm...why not just take the bungees of the wing? you´re not paying more for an OMS then a Halcyon, removing the bungees wouldn´t leave me feeling like I overpaid for the wing...just doesent seem like much of an argument...

Just looking to make an informed decision and understand why...
 
grazie42:
Ohh...sorry...didnt look at the dates...
As I´m in the process of purchasing a wing the topic interests me though...

DIR or not DIR is like religion and is discussed in length elsewhere.

Read up on it yourself and never take anyone's word for granted, make up your own mind.

The GUE website has a lot of DIR info available, and one of the best (objective) pieces I have found there is: http://www.gue.com/equipment/jj-hogarth.shtml

And on the issue of redundant bladders and dry suits as BC it says: "Some divers insist on a reserve BC while others feel they are unnecessary. Generally the consensus is that while diving wet in an area with a deep or nonexistent floor (i.e. ocean or large cave) a redundant BC is a good idea. Many people feel that a diver diving a dry suit could use the suit for emergency buoyancy. This assertion is quite reasonable but should be practiced to determine one's proficiency."

And you don't dive dry suit unless you need it for warmth.

--A
 
fldivenut said:
The GUE website has a lot of DIR info available, and one of the best (objective) pieces I have found there is: http://www.gue.com/equipment/jj-hogarth.shtml

Thank you! From what I´ve read on this board even the DIR "moderates" sometimes come off as "preachy" something that tends to irritate me...that piece actually contained a lot of good thoughts (I think)...

My questions to Boogie711 still stand though...I actually looked at an OMS wing today trying to see what he meant with: "Why would anyone want to rig an inflator behind them"

The one I looked @ didnt have bungees so as its (obviously) a personal choice whether to leave them on or off that argument seems very weak (and even then the piece referenced above doesent seem to dissaprove of them)...
 
grazie42:
My questions to Boogie711 still stand though...I actually looked at an OMS wing today trying to see what he meant with: "Why would anyone want to rig an inflator behind them". The one I looked @ didnt have bungees so as its (obviously) a personal choice whether to leave them on or off that argument seems very weak (and even then the piece referenced above doesn't seem to dissaprove of them)...

There are always rational arguments behind DIR recommendations. Whether you choose to agree with them or not, or whether they appear to apply to the diving you often do, is a different matter.

Several concepts apply to bungeed wings. As the topic has been thoroughly beaten, I'll be brief:

Should you ever need to try to inflate the wing on the surface orally, you will be trying to blow into the wing against the pressure of the bungee cord. As any situation where you need to inflate the wing orally implies that you aren't having a good day to begin with, additional stress is not likely to improve your survival odds.

The bungees pull the wing in at defined 'bands', thereby trapping air in between bungee bands. If you are attempting to fine tune your bouyancy using the left rear pull dump, it can make it difficult to balance right and left. The air does not circulate as freely inside the wing.

The bungees are supposed to 'gather' the wing in, thereby supposedly reducing drag. In video footage, however, wings without bungees 'fold up' against the twinset on each side, presenting very little drag along the longitudinal axis of the diver.

There are other elements as well, but these are some primary thoughts. (Um, and why would you desire to buy a bungeed wing to then remove the bungees leaving all those grommeted holes? Just buy one without bungees to begin with...)

In terms of diving steels wet, this has been addressed above. Suffice to say that with two deco bottles and steel twins the total excess weight a diver can have at the beginning of a dive can be greater than 25-30 lbs. A wing failure at the start of the dive, after the wetsuit has been compressed at depth, can leave a diver in excess of 30 lbs heavy, no wing, and even if the diver jettison's the deco bottles, they are still trying to swim up 20+ excess lbs with no bouyancy at all. Unless they remove the steel doubles and do an ESA, their options are decidedly limited.

One argument against dual bladders is the distressing tendency for some LP inflators to suffer low level leaks. If you connect both LP hoses to inflators, and you keep getting lighter and lighter causing you to need to dump gas to maintain bouyancy, now you need to determine which inflator is leaking. Some divers don't hook up the right inflator. Some divers secure the inflator that isn't hooked up along their right side, bungeed to the bp. Now if there is a problem they must access the LP inflator on their right, then connect it, while dealing with other task loading resulting from the failure, which can become problematic. It isn't necessarily that there is no place for dual bladders. It is that they require a more robust planning and training effort.

Obviously, whether you find these arguments compelling or not will depend on your circumstances. But these are some of the arguments being referred to earlier.

Regards,

Doc
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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