Octo

[oldmossback]

Thanks Elmer for that update.......now I can truely say I do know of DH failures..........however, these were not due to the design or manufactured assembly but; by your admission; your hand or age of the equipment..........either can happen.

Your last example is however the best......you had a spare air.......I'd rather have that than a octo.........but I don't.

I did buy my son a 19cuft pony bottle for this reason........his dive buddy failed to maintain contact while my son was breathing off her octo. She fell away into the gloom of our muddy Texas lakes...he made a free accent from 70ft.....so much for buddy breathing off an octo..........watching his spg would have prevented this.

As I stated previously, I believe the octo is for the other guy who is outta air..........and but for one exception, this reason alone do I carry a octo.. and this; like DH buddy breathing requires training and practice for this to work.....but it beats the OoA diver jerking your mouthpiece; single or double; outta your mouth with you having nothing to back it up.......


I dive alone more now than I did when I was younger.........and believe me I watch my SPG like a hawk! And while I test my theories with my experimental Mk2 and Mk3's I carry that octo for backup like you...but not for regular diving fun......but a small pony bottle would still be better.......maybe I'll get one this year............

 

[John C. Ratliff]

I found this photo of an early wreck diver's rig:

I wrote, "This photo is from IQ6, and shows a wreck diver's double tanks with a pony bottle." IQ6 was the Sixth International Conference on Underwater Education, and this is from the Proceedincs of that conference, in 1974. I looked up the reference, and this was a photo by Ken Heist, NAUI #1036, which he included in his paper An Introduction to East Coast Wreck Diving at this conference (held October 4-6, 1974 with Art Ullrick as the Editor of the Proceedings. I have a copy as I presented two papers at this conference, one titled The Life Vest and one titled Comments on Buoyancy Control and Emergency Procedures. Here's what Ken said at that time about equipment:

The divers can now get ready to dive. Their equipment over and above the "normal" diving equipment may include:

Double Tanks - Becaues of the depths involved in diving the "better" wrecks which are generally deeper than 100 feet an increased air supply is desirable. These wrecks are generally more intact ones that have not been blown up by the Coast Guard or Navy as hazards to navigation.

Pony Bottles - Used as a totally independent source of air with a 10 or 13 cu. ft. capacity. Figure 2 shows a set of double tanks with a pony bottle. Note the pony regulator has no exhaust tee; this prevents confusion as to which regulator is the main regulator. This also helps to prevent the normally hanging pony regulator from getting caught on anything...

SeaRat

 

[Wayward Son]

I recall seeing them in catalogs in the early 1970's, but never actually saw one in real life. When I took a PADI/NASDS open water class in 1978 they were not in use nor taught by that LDS.

My best guess is that it was a gradual process over a number of year, primarily in the 80's. Possibly as a partial response to concern over AIDS during that time frame as well.

And it may also have been partly a result of dive gear manufacturers having found a new way to sell more gear

 

[John C. Ratliff]

I recall seeing them in catalogs in the early 1970's, but never actually saw one in real life. When I took a PADI/NASDS open water class in 1978 they were not in use nor taught by that LDS.

My best guess is that it was a gradual process over a number of year, primarily in the 80's. Possibly as a partial response to concern over AIDS during that time frame as well.

And it may also have been partly a result of dive gear manufacturers having found a new way to sell more gear

I think there was a legitimate concern for safety, which led to the use of the octopus. I don't recall the AIDS epidemic as factoring into the discussion at all. As a matter of fact, when I was receiving my NAUI Instructor training in 1973, we had to give each other in-water mouth-to-mouth through about 200 yards of surf in the Santa Barbara area in order to qualify (I had to do it with one fin, as I lost a jet fin on the way in). This gave us quite an appreciation for the effectiveness of in-water mouth-to-mouth artificial resuscitation, as we were instructed not to breath for ourselves during this exercise!

In 1977, Jon Hard published an Equipment Update paper in the Proceedings of the Ninth International Conference on Underwater Education, edited by Lou Fead. These IQ conferences were sponsored by NAUI during that time. In that paper, Jon said this:

Selection
REGULATORS continue to improve and students should be encouraged to buy a new, one-hose regulator from the top one-half of a manufacturer's line. The regulator should be equipped with a submersible pressure gauge. In fact, regulators should be factory-equipped with gauges included so the question is not whether to have a gauge, but which gauge to have.

OCTOPUS REGULATORS with an extra second stage for buddy breathing are now available and can improve diving safety significantly. If the diver is going to be an instructor, cave dive, wreck dive, ice dive, make deep dives (beyond 60 feet), or do any underwater work or do any decompression, the octopus is an extremely important piece of safety equipment.

TANKS may be steel or aluminum and of many sizes. Selection of a tank is not nearly as critical as selection of a regulator and gauge, but valve selection is important. All tanks should have "J" constant reserve valves. These valves are a back-up for the submersible pressure gauge and provide protection for the cylinder by helping to keep the diver from emptying the tank completely. Audio reserves on regulators are also valuable as a back-up for the gauge...

...USE:

During training, all regulators should be equipped with submersible pressure gauges and all tanks equipped with J-valves. The water exercises should be planned for the students to repeatedly use both gauges and reserves. Several units with octopus regulators should be available in a class so every student has an opportunity to use the octopus system...

...Procedures for the octopus regulator are not yet generally agreed upon. But this is no time to wait to see what happens while divers continue to have accidents with the so-called "out-of-air"situation. The octopus should: have a longer hose, be clearly marked, be immediately available in a place that is obvious to both divers and attached securely yet with a quick breakaway release. The most important aspect of the procedure for an octopus is that: the two buddy divers agree before the dive as to what the procedure will be. This agreement before the dive is also vitally important on such matters as reading the pressure gauge for dive termination, how to use the reserve, and many other underwater procedures that can affect both divers...

In the forward section, there is information on all the presenters. Jon Hardy was very high in the NAUI organization, and was at my NAUI Instructor's Training Class (ITC) in 1973 (which was run by Dennis Graver). Here is Jon's biography in that book:

Jon is the Executive Director of NAUI. He has been involved in sport, scientific, commercial and military diving for over 20 years, with teaching qualifications from several agencies. He earned a B.S. from Santa Barbara City College's Marine Diving Technician Program. He has published and lectured extensively on diving safety procedures including most recently, Instructor Sensitivity, Student Needs, Realistic Diver Training and the Importance of Diver Equipment Skills.

Here is a photo of me diving my Trieste II with a MR-12 octopus in about 1974.

Here is a setup I put together first in the 1980s with my steel 45s, and then with these twin 50 using a Sherwood manifold which allows a second regulator to be used with a double hose regulator (most of which did not come equipped with either a HP or LP outlet).

I have since put my USD valve on this system, and no longer have that particular valve.
Instead, I have a Mossback MkIII with a Calypso octopus on it, here shown on the twin 45s I have with the duel outlet (one not used). So I still have that capability.

(Note Cyndy's decals.)

SeaRat

 

[captain]

I recall seeing them in catalogs in the early 1970's, but never actually saw one in real life. When I took a PADI/NASDS open water class in 1978 they were not in use nor taught by that LDS.

My best guess is that it was a gradual process over a number of year, primarily in the 80's. Possibly as a partial response to concern over AIDS during that time frame as well.

And it may also have been partly a result of dive gear manufacturers having found a new way to sell more gear

I can remember AIDS being an issue with buddy breathing and CPR.

 

[elmer fudd]

Your last example is however the best......you had a spare air.......I'd rather have that than a octo.........but I don't.

Having anything good to say about Spareairs puts me firmly into scuba quack territory, but I honestly think they're a great piece of gear provided you recognize their limitations.

For me, they're a CESA aid, and I mainly carry one when for whatever reason I don't completely trust the gear I'm using. In the case of that Northill, I didn't trust that reg much farther than I could throw it. In that situation, I didn't have an octo, but the Spareair was tiny enough that I could wear it on a necklace.

I was only about 10' deep when things started to go wrong, so presumably I could have easily ascended without it, but it's nice to be able to reach under your chin and have another air source.

 

[Wayward Son]

I have octos on all of our reg sets. I like the simplicity of being able to simply hand off my primary, switch to my octo & bail.

But there is another practical consideration to this. A dive buddy of mine who is also an instructor & caver diver does not have any octos on his open water regs. He teaches buddy breathing. If you dive with him & need air from him, you'd better know how to buddy breath or pick it up damned fast, bc there is no other option. His main point on the subject:

By buddy breathing, the gas we have will last twice as long as it would if we were using an octo & breathing at the same time.

 

[duckbill]

A dive buddy of mine who is also an instructor & caver diver does not have any octos on his open water regs. He teaches buddy breathing. If you dive with him & need air from him, you'd better know how to buddy breath or pick it up damned fast, bc there is no other option.

I would swim up ^

 

[elmer fudd]

Using buddy breathing to save air sounds like a logical fallacy to me.

It's basically forced skip breathing, which is something you could also choose to do with an octopus.

While I wouldn't personally take any issue with someone who opted for buddy breathing instead of an octopus, I'm not really sure that argument for it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Luis H]

Using buddy breathing to save air sounds like a logical fallacy to me.

It's basically forced skip breathing, which is something you could also choose to do with an octopus.

While I wouldn't personally take any issue with someone who opted for buddy breathing instead of an octopus, I'm not really sure that argument for it makes a lot of sense.

I was thinking the exact same thing...
Thanks