Octo left and spg right

[Diving Dubai]

There are definitely benefits to this. When I learned in Canada in the 1980's I think everyone was doing this.

The main benefit to this is that when you share air the hose on the octopus is straight as opposed to having a turn in it as it does when it comes from the right.

Somewhere along the line the paradigm changed and I'm not really sure why.

R..

It would be my guess, that the Octo on the right became the standard, because, people were taught an air share ascent facing each other in a vertical position. In this situation the hose routing makes sense

Of course in the real world the octo from the left (as I have my rig configured) makes more sense because you can swim side by side with more room.

I often get asked why I chose the left side. My pool gear for OW training is configured in the traditional way though.

 

[Pkishino]

Why would you be sodding around with a low-pressure inflator whilst donating to someone who was out of gas?

There is nothing wrong with setting things up like this. It's not how I'd do it - but the idea that we would be fine-tuning our buoyancy for the few seconds we are donating an alternative air source is fanciful, to say the least.

nothing to do with fine-tuning..all about releasing on ascent
because when people are OOA or need support are in an elevated state of mind, this could mean when you donate and they start breathing deeply -> increased buoyancy -> they might not notice -> I have no intention of being dragged up and want my left hand free to dump if needed.. as we are heading up anyway one should be in control and release when needed.. especially if you arent using a longhose you would both be holding each other quite close, holding onto the reg with your left hand and ascending..how are you going to vent?

 

[doctormike]

Why would you be sodding around with a low-pressure inflator whilst donating to someone who was out of gas?

There is nothing wrong with setting things up like this. It's not how I'd do it - but the idea that we would be fine-tuning our buoyancy for the few seconds we are donating an alternative air source is fanciful, to say the least.

In that situation, the LP inflator isn't used for fine tuning buoyancy, it's used for dumping gas during the ascent. Which you had better do when you are ascending while donating gas.

That having been said, I can't imagine that there would be much practical difference between the "standard" setup and its mirror image. In a gas donation scenario, both would be inferior to a long hose, primary donate setup IMHO, but I do understand that not everyone agrees with that.

 

[HantsDiver]

nothing to do with fine-tuning..all about releasing on ascent
because when people are OOA or need support are in an elevated state of mind, this could mean when you donate and they start breathing deeply -> increased buoyancy -> they might not notice -> I have no intention of being dragged up and want my left hand free to dump if needed.. as we are heading up anyway one should be in control and release when needed.. especially if you arent using a longhose you lwoud both be holding each other quite close, holding onto the reg with your left hand and ascending..how are you going to vent?

How many hands does it take once you have passed the regulator over? I can keep hold of someone with one. Meaning I can dump gas with the other. They would stuggle to breathe deeply until the reg is in their mouth though.

Why are you holding onto a regulator whilst ascending? You pass it to the out of gas diver. Chill. Then go up.

 

[HantsDiver]

In that situation, the LP inflator isn't used for fine tuning buoyancy, it's used for dumping gas during the ascent. Which you had better do when you are ascending while donating gas.

That having been said, I can't imagine that there would be much practical difference between the "standard" setup and its mirror image. In a gas donation scenario, both would be inferior to a long hose, primary donate setup IMHO, but I do understand that not everyone agrees with that.

My point was - why would you not have your hand free to do this? The argument only holds if we need to use the lpi during the physical act of handing the octo off. It makes no sense. Which is why I made the tongue in cheek comment about fine tuning buoyancy.

 

[doctormike]

My point was - why would you not have your hand free to do this? The argument only holds if we need to use the lpi during the physical act of handing the octo off. It makes no sense. Which is why I made the tongue in cheek comment about fine tuning buoyancy.

OK, didn't get that, sorry. I (and apparently Pkishino) read your post as implying that you didn't need to do anything with your LPI during a gas donation ascent.

The issue I see with the octo on the left is that if you imagine a gas donation scenario where the incident diver is breathing off the rescuing diver's backup second stage, and that second stage is on a short hose routed over the rescuer's left shoulder, it will cross the LPI and possibly interfere with the rescuer venting on ascent. Certainly more so than if it's coming over the right shoulder, as in the common recreational setup. And more so than with a long hose / primary donate setup.

 

[chrisch]

Do not get me started on bsac.
I looked at joining my local club last week as a padi rescue diver with 75 dives to be told I would need to come and spend a few weeks in the pool with them then after I have learnt a few more skills I could cross over as an ocean diver with a 20m depth limit till I then start on the sports diver course oh and they sagged padi off and explained the fact that they were cheaper and I would not have to pay for any more padi courses.
Needless to say I will not be diving with them

Unfortunately there are still some clubs like that. As a PADI RD you "crossover" as BSAC SD but you don't need training at all if you don't want it. But I think your decision is the right one. Hope you find some people to dive with - there is a good UK forum if you haven't already found it and you can use that to find buddies and spare places on trips. PM me if you need the URL - probably not good form to post it here.

 

[Kermit98]

Do not get me started on bsac.
I looked at joining my local club last week as a padi rescue diver with 75 dives to be told I would need to come and spend a few weeks in the pool with them then after I have learnt a few more skills I could cross over as an ocean diver with a 20m depth limit till I then start on the sports diver course oh and they sagged padi off and explained the fact that they were cheaper and I would not have to pay for any more padi courses.
Needless to say I will not be diving with them

That would be an ill informed club/club member, sadly it happens. I would encourage you to maybe try another local club if there are any.

PADI Rescue Diver is considered equivalent as a BSAC Sports Diver. If you just wished to dive with a BSAC club you could continue with your existing qualification with the club consulting the SALT (Statement of Alternative Learning Table)

http://www.bsac.com/core/core_picker/download.asp?id=10131

Should you wish to continue training within the BSAC Diver Training Program then you would cross over as above, fill in any gaps you might have and then continue with the BSAC training but you need a cross over pack rather than a "regular" pack (usually cost about £10 more because the have the qualification book etc in them).

My club's intake each year is probably about 50-50 on "new" divers and other agency divers, your experience is pretty much makes me want to bang my head against a wall.....

It's true there are differences in the training (as there are between most agencies) but for the most part these are relatively minor at the lower levels (no insult intended).

When we get to Dive Master and levels above that crossing I encourage crossovers to do the BSAC Dive Leader course as well but what they are "allowed" to dive is still based on their existing qualification.

I encourage them to do it because everyone who has done it in my club has found it useful, it covers in more detail aspects such as trip planning, tides, weather in relation to diving in the UK.



With regards to the OP. The "normal" we see for beginners is Oct on the right, SPG on the left. As soon as multiple cylinders come into play it generally changes all over the place. Its find what works for you and your buddy.

 

[Pkishino]

My point was - why would you not have your hand free to do this? The argument only holds if we need to use the lpi during the physical act of handing the octo off. It makes no sense. Which is why I made the tongue in cheek comment about fine tuning buoyancy.

Thanks for the reply, it makes sense now happy to learn something

 

[DanielRJones]

No

That would be an ill informed club/club member, sadly it happens. I would encourage you to maybe try another local club if there are any.

PADI Rescue Diver is considered equivalent as a BSAC Sports Diver. If you just wished to dive with a BSAC club you could continue with your existing qualification with the club consulting the SALT (Statement of Alternative Learning Table)

http://www.bsac.com/core/core_picker/download.asp?id=10131

Should you wish to continue training within the BSAC Diver Training Program then you would cross over as above, fill in any gaps you might have and then continue with the BSAC training but you need a cross over pack rather than a "regular" pack (usually cost about £10 more because the have the qualification book etc in them).

My club's intake each year is probably about 50-50 on "new" divers and other agency divers, your experience is pretty much makes me want to bang my head against a wall.....

It's true there are differences in the training (as there are between most agencies) but for the most part these are relatively minor at the lower levels (no insult intended).

When we get to Dive Master and levels above that crossing I encourage crossovers to do the BSAC Dive Leader course as well but what they are "allowed" to dive is still based on their existing qualification.

I encourage them to do it because everyone who has done it in my club has found it useful, it covers in more detail aspects such as trip planning, tides, weather in relation to diving in the UK.



With regards to the OP. The "normal" we see for beginners is Oct on the right, SPG on the left. As soon as multiple cylinders come into play it generally changes all over the place. Its find what works for you and your buddy.

No insult taken. They are the closest club for 15miles. Will prob join a Saa club that is an extra 20miles away but had much better interaction with them and did not start off by padi bashing or coming across like I had learnt incorrectly/inadequate.