Oceanic Delta 4 vs. Apex XTX200

[rescuediver009]

As much as the Oceanic fellas here are telling the truth that the Delta is a nice regulator, you will find overwhleming support for the Apeks. I have found that the environmental seal on the oceanic is not as sturdy on the Oceanic and the mechanically balanced second stage to be not as great as the apeks pneumatically balanced one. I think that along with the cold, and the salt, you may find the environmental seal to not work as well.
In the ideal world we would always rinse our regs to manufacturer's specifications, however if you don't the Apeks will work with it.

 

[cerich]

As much as the Oceanic fellas here are telling the truth that the Delta is a nice regulator, you will find overwhleming support for the Apeks. I have found that the environmental seal on the oceanic is not as sturdy on the Oceanic and the mechanically balanced second stage to be not as great as the apeks pneumatically balanced one. I think that along with the cold, and the salt, you may find the environmental seal to not work as well.
In the ideal world we would always rinse our regs to manufacturer's specifications, however if you don't the Apeks will work with it.

Hey the Apeks are great regs, no question, so is the Delta 4 (and IMHO a better value).

Your comments on the enviornmental seal honestly don't make sense from an engineering basis. What effect will salt have on it? It's sealed... The FDX10 first also has a different enviornmental seal than the CDX5, DX series as well so take a look at THIS reg.
As far as the mechanical vs. pneumanical second, I'm gonna give you that GENERALLY the pneumatical will perform better, but you obviously haven't used a DELTA 4 yet if you think that is the case here.

As far as rinsing your regs go, heck leave the dust cap off our Delta 4 it doesn't matter with DVT and I'd put money the Delta 4 will handle not being rinsed as well or better than Apeks....

 

[redacted]

As far as the mechanical vs. pneumanical second, I'm gonna give you that GENERALLY the pneumatical will perform better, but you obviously haven't used a DELTA 4 yet if you think that is the case here.
....

I too wondered about Oceanic's mechanical balancing with a classic downstream design as opposed to a pneumatically balanced barrel poppet. Then I found a schematic of the Kirby Morgan and found the same basic design. That made me believe there must be some advantages in that design. I dive Scubapro adjustables, both balance and unbalance. When properly adjusted, it is hard for me to detect a performance difference in terms of ease of breathing. But the unbalanced design with its heavier spring seems to be a little less sensetive to the effects of current and surge. I ususally have the balanced reg in my mouth and use the unbalanced as an Octo. In river currents I only use the unbalanced adjustable design and have less problem with current induced freeflows.

 

[cerich]

I too wondered about Oceanic's mechanical balancing with a classic downstream design as opposed to a pneumatically balanced barrel poppet. Then I found a schematic of the Kirby Morgan and found the same basic design. That made me believe there must be some advantages in that design. I dive Scubapro adjustables, both balance and unbalance. When properly adjusted, it is hard for me to detect a performance difference in terms of ease of breathing. But the unbalanced design with its heavier spring seems to be a little less sensetive to the effects of current and surge. I ususally have the balanced reg in my mouth and use the unbalanced as an Octo. In river currents I only use the unbalanced adjustable design and have less problem with current induced freeflows.

Regulator Savvy has a good break down on how it works, and work it does.

To my mind there are some advantages. Over the last few years regs have gone from Balanced seconds that would act as a OPV with a first stage issue (high IP from blown seat etc) to "seriously" balanced to the point where the inflator or the hose becomes the OPV (seen seconds that will hold back an IP of over 350 psi). Over the last year I have read quite a few reports from people diving newer balanced seconds that have had an undesired assent due to first stage issues that rose the IP enough to overcome the inflator without the balanced second venting. IMHO that is undesirable.

If you have the ability to have a low cracking effort (the Delta 4 out of the box is stable at .7-.8", which as you know is very low) and good flow (done in Delta 4's case) then balancing is not needed with a balanced first stage design. It was needed back in the day when balanced pistons came out with great flow but high IP drop to keep the breathing effort low, now balanced pistons have min. IP drop so the pneumatically balanced second becomes more marketing than needed. The other time you require an all pneumatically balanced seconds is when the first stage is of the "Overbalanced" variety. Given that equal performance can be gotten without resorting to overbalancing there is a risk/reward trade off happening there.

But the market demands what the market demands.....

 

[Oceanseleven]

Can't comments on Oceanic products as I have not had enough experience with them but if your talking value Apeks is running a great deal right now untill the end of July. Buy any of there regulators and they will include an apeks egress octo for free. That's about a $125 -$150 value free. That should put you below the price of the Oceanic with the same setup.

Just my 2psi

 

[cerich]

Can't comments on Oceanic products as I have not had enough experience with them but if your talking value Apeks is running a great deal right now untill the end of July. Buy any of there regulators and they will include an apeks egress octo for free. That's about a $125 -$150 value free. That should put you below the price of the Oceanic with the same setup.

Just my 2psi

Or if you are getting all your gear save ~$200 with our free wetsuit offer...

 

[jheil82]

Thanks all for your input. I'm stopping by the shop after work tomorrow to take a secod look at the Apex. I've actually tried this one and heard many good things about the older Black Pearl, which I believe the XTX is similar to. The free Octo promotion and fact that I want a Sunnto console will probally mean I get the Apex. (Keep the aqua lung label on the whole kit) I'll let you know what I decide tomorrow.

 

[Scuba Tech]

I can't belive how often in this forum we have reg against reg posts and all the time no one ever brings up the issue of quality and reliability!

When selecting a reg reliability and long lasting quality should always be a top concern.
In this case Oceanic v Apeks we are comparing apples to oranges!

I have been an Oceanic reg owner for 10 years and an oceanic service tech for 9 years (yes, traind by you Doug!). Now no matter what the manufacturs say the Oceanic DX serise 1st stages will flow a grater volume of air then the Apek due to its venturi assisted primary port! But its mechanical 2nd stage can't mach the performance of the Apeks ATX/XTX 2nd stage and last time I checked its the 2nd stage that gives the air to you!

So down too reliability, both actualy very good! Apeks what can you say, has the best HP seat in the industry, the Oceanic is a close copy of the Apeks (if you must copy, copy the best, right) however they have had some batch issues along the way so can only rank as average.
Now remember those apples and oranges? Here it is, Quality. No contest. Apeks regs are realy in a class of there own here. At the price they sell for no one can match the quality of Apeks, look for milling marks visable around the ports and on the edges of the body this will indicate the standards to which the body was machined and also the thickness of the chrome. Also rough finnish v true satin or sinny chrome, rough finnishes are cheap and easy to do but are thin and poor quality. Shinny chrome can have a tendancy to flake off (sherwood brut) but only when done on the cheap! Never will you see sinny chrome flake from an Apeks (or an Atomic)! Doug, remember when a DX1 had sinny chrome?
Oceanic have always had issues with poor chrome, low quality stainless steel and toy like plastics.
If you want many years of hassle free diving buy based on quality not just good performance!

 

[cerich]

I can't belive how often in this forum we have reg against reg posts and all the time no one ever brings up the issue of quality and reliability!

When selecting a reg reliability and long lasting quality should always be a top concern.
In this case Oceanic v Apeks we are comparing apples to oranges!

I have been an Oceanic reg owner for 10 years and an oceanic service tech for 9 years (yes, traind by you Doug!). Now no matter what the manufacturs say the Oceanic DX serise 1st stages will flow a grater volume of air then the Apek due to its venturi assisted primary port! But its mechanical 2nd stage can't mach the performance of the Apeks ATX/XTX 2nd stage and last time I checked its the 2nd stage that gives the air to you!

So down too reliability, both actualy very good! Apeks what can you say, has the best HP seat in the industry, the Oceanic is a close copy of the Apeks (if you must copy, copy the best, right) however they have had some batch issues along the way so can only rank as average.
Now remember those apples and oranges? Here it is, Quality. No contest. Apeks regs are realy in a class of there own here. At the price they sell for no one can match the quality of Apeks, look for milling marks visable around the ports and on the edges of the body this will indicate the standards to which the body was machined and also the thickness of the chrome. Also rough finnish v true satin or sinny chrome, rough finnishes are cheap and easy to do but are thin and poor quality. Shinny chrome can have a tendancy to flake off (sherwood brut) but only when done on the cheap! Never will you see sinny chrome flake from an Apeks (or an Atomic)! Doug, remember when a DX1 had sinny chrome?
Oceanic have always had issues with poor chrome, low quality stainless steel and toy like plastics.
If you want many years of hassle free diving buy based on quality not just good performance!

Hi Danby,

Take a look at newer Oceanic stuff.

Best,

Chris

 

[Scuba Tech]

Figured that was you, C.R.

Remember, In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!!!

YOU MOVED CNC AND CHROME TO CHINA YET OR WHAT?

See you in Aug. CD