Age-old question: Apex XTX200 or Scubapro MK19(25)EVO/S620Ti

[captnkuk]

Hi all,
New to the board here, but not new to diving. I have been diving for 35+ years; some years more often, some years less frequently; always rented gear, never owned any.
Now with my family we are starting to dive more and more frequently so I am thinking for the first time to actually buy the full gear for all 4 of us; and with this said, I want to go for something solid that will last for a long time.
I have come down to the following choice:

BCD: ScubaPro Hydros Pro

Regulator:
(a) either going fully ScubaPro adding the S620Ti on a MK19EVO (perhaps MK25EVO but not sure about pistons - never used them??) or
(b) going with an Apex XTX200

I am not against Leg3nd etc. but after all the research I have sort of narrowed down to these two.

I am looking for an all-rounder that is good for tropical as well as colder climates but never intend to dive under the ice, caves etc.
I hear from folks saying that SP will let more air out than Apex - any truth in this? ...In moderate diving (e.g. to 40m) - what I noticed especially with my kids is that with some regulators they "breathed up" the tank much faster than with other regulators... so pushing lots of air in moderate diving conditions may not be the most desired feature, but I'm not sure how much truth is in this statement? Unfortunately never had the chance to test some of these top-of-the-line equipment as dive shops always supply more low-to-mid-range stuff...

Anyway, I am not sure if I've given enough details here, but would really appreciate some feedback whether there is any particularly noticeable difference or will it be more or less the same? If more or less the same, I will probably go with SP just to stick to one brand. Also probably would choose MK19EVO as I've never used pistons and would not experiment with my first purchase, unless there would be a very compelling reason to go with MK25?

Many thanks in advance!

 

[lexvil]

Zeagle F8

 

[Nemrod]

Hi all,
New to the board here, but not new to diving. I have been diving for 35+ years; some years more often, some years less frequently; always rented gear, never owned any.
Now with my family we are starting to dive more and more frequently so I am thinking for the first time to actually buy the full gear for all 4 of us; and with this said, I want to go for something solid that will last for a long time.
I have come down to the following choice:

BCD: ScubaPro Hydros Pro

Regulator:
(a) either going fully ScubaPro adding the S620Ti on a MK19EVO (perhaps MK25EVO but not sure about pistons - never used them??) or
(b) going with an Apex XTX200

I am not against Leg3nd etc. but after all the research I have sort of narrowed down to these two.

I am looking for an all-rounder that is good for tropical as well as colder climates but never intend to dive under the ice, caves etc.
I hear from folks saying that SP will let more air out than Apex - any truth in this? ...In moderate diving (e.g. to 40m) - what I noticed especially with my kids is that with some regulators they "breathed up" the tank much faster than with other regulators... so pushing lots of air in moderate diving conditions may not be the most desired feature, but I'm not sure how much truth is in this statement? Unfortunately never had the chance to test some of these top-of-the-line equipment as dive shops always supply more low-to-mid-range stuff...

Anyway, I am not sure if I've given enough details here, but would really appreciate some feedback whether there is any particularly noticeable difference or will it be more or less the same? If more or less the same, I will probably go with SP just to stick to one brand. Also probably would choose MK19EVO as I've never used pistons and would not experiment with my first purchase, unless there would be a very compelling reason to go with MK25?

Many thanks in advance!

All modern regulators "let out air" equal to your demand, not more nor less .

Scubapro is a top of the line brand which I personally have come to favor. However, Scubapro has long championed piston regulators and factually no first stage "can let out more air" than a Scubapro Mark 25 Evo, none! And does this matter for you, no.

IMO, the Mark 19 Evo is a bit on the portly side for travel, I would get the Mark 25 or the Scubapro S370 with Mark 11. I would prefer the Mark 17 Evo over the 19 but the 17 has been dropped so as not to steal sales from the 19, I guess.

I am giving AL and Apeks a time out because they are co-owned by an investment firm and the future is perhaps a bit cloudy, hopefully it will be good. But right now some parts and products are not flowing to shops.

You do not need to spend top of the line $$$$ to get a good regulator that will provide all the air you will want.

And somebody is going to come on here shortly recommending Deep 6 and that is an excellent choice that might save some $$$$$$. However, Scubapro has about the oldest and longest reputation for long support of their products and you pay extra $ for that honor of owning Scubapro.

I would not get a Hydros, it is a wing/BP wannabe. But some like them, I grant that. I would get the Stab Jacket or their less expensive back inflate BC if I had to use a BC instead of a wing/BP.

 

[Pressurehead]

Also probably would choose MK19EVO

Great regulator, matched with 2 G260 , or the Mk17 , I have both.
I am hearing a lot of good reports about the S370 2nds, yet to try one.

I would not get a Hydros, it is a wing/BP wannabe. But some like them,

I am one of them, I love my Hydros Pro for the diving I do now [I have been trying to sell my 2 simple harness B/Wings, both not used now and hang in the shed].
I will sit back and wait with my flame suite on.
Always good for a laugh, Pick one.

 

[Angelo Farina]

The MK17 is still available in EU and reasonably priced. You can easily order online from reputable sellers and get them shipped all around the world.
I see no reason for the Titanium 2nd stages: my brass Scubapro 109 are still working perfectly after 40 years of usage...
No other brand surpasses Scubapro in terms of durability, serviceability and upgradability, getting parts from newer models for improved performances.
All that said, here is my suggestion:

Scubapro Erogatore MK17 EVO S620Ti + Octopus R195 | eBay

Le migliori offerte per Scubapro Erogatore MK17 EVO S620Ti + Octopus R195 sono su eBay ✓ Confronta prezzi e caratteristiche di prodotti nuovi e usati ✓ Molti articoli con consegna gratis!

www.ebay.it

You can get the same performances at smaller cost (and possibly longer term support, and more "tech" capabilities) if you get rid of that specific "titanium" 2nd stage. Here for example what I always suggest:

Scubapro Erogatore MK17 EVO G260 + Octopus R195 | eBay

Le migliori offerte per Scubapro Erogatore MK17 EVO G260 + Octopus R195 sono su eBay ✓ Confronta prezzi e caratteristiche di prodotti nuovi e usati ✓ Molti articoli con consegna gratis!

www.ebay.it

.
Or, regarding the new C370, which is even cheaper:

Scubapro Erogatore MK17 EVO C370 Octopus R095 4048336404020 | eBay

Le migliori offerte per Scubapro Erogatore MK17 EVO C370 Octopus R095 sono su eBay ✓ Confronta prezzi e caratteristiche di prodotti nuovi e usati ✓ Molti articoli con consegna gratis!

www.ebay.it

However, I still recommend the MK17+G260.

 

[Nemrod]

Great regulator, matched with 2 G260 , or the Mk17 , I have both.
I am hearing a lot of good reports about the S370 2nds, yet to try one.

I am one of them, I love my Hydros Pro for the diving I do now [I have been trying to sell my 2 simple harness B/Wings, both not used now and hang in the shed].
I will sit back and wait with my flame suite on.
Always good for a laugh, Pick one.
View attachment 800618

LOL, my problem with the Hydros is $$$$$ and it is HEAVY and it has enough buoyancy for three divers. Scubapro could pair the thing down a little maybe, an adult male in the standard size just does not need more than 30 pounds of lift. It is just too much for single tank travel diving. And that is a complaint against BCs of all sorts in general is that they have way to much lift in all the wrong places. I would not mind having a GO or the LiteHawk. But again, they have more lift than needed and therefore a lot more fluff than needed and therefore a lot more bulk than needed. A LiteHawk in a ML size and no more than 24 pounds of lift and I am sold (maybe) .

I have come to prefer pistons and in doing so come full circle. I wish my still new Mark 17 Evo were a Mark 25 Evo. But still, that would be a good first with an S370 or a G260 which is my fav (G250 aside). Since the OP is in Europe:

 

[Pressurehead]

LOL, my problem with the Hydros is $$$$$ and it is HEAVY

You know we are going off topic , again.
I have 2 of them, one S the other M and only use the simple harness with either with the M size harness, no weight pockets, lightweight harness travel BCD Scubapro call it.
Never had a problem with the bag on my back with it's size.
And I bought one of them very cheap, new.
OK, back on topic.

 

[captnkuk]

LOL, my problem with the Hydros is $$$$$ and it is HEAVY and it has enough buoyancy for three divers. Scubapro could pair the thing down a little maybe, an adult male in the standard size just does not need more than 30 pounds of lift. It is just too much for single tank travel diving. And that is a complaint against BCs of all sorts in general is that they have way to much lift in all the wrong places. I would not mind having a GO or the LiteHawk. But again, they have more lift than needed and therefore a lot more fluff than needed and therefore a lot more bulk than needed. A LiteHawk in a ML size and no more than 24 pounds of lift and I am sold (maybe) .

Hmm... interesting feedback. I have not pulled the trigger on the Hydros Pro yet - it was only the choice after much reading; I only ever used standard cheap BCDs that you get in divecenters with rental equipment. But I find the wing style very interesting and it makes sense to me. Also, we are a young family, fit and strong swimmers... so some "concerns" about the wing being less accomodating when floating on the surface fully inflated is not an issue - I prefer to focus on buoyancy and comfort under water. But the coment of "oversize" does raise a question...
What would then in your opinion be a "best choice" for a BCD that has relatively modern design and is a good fit for a slim body type, preferably lightweight for travel?


@Pressurehead : good to hear of your positive experience with Hydros Pro. Any further thoughts whether I am going in the right direction or are there alternatives you'd suggest to also consider still?

 

[Nemrod]

Hmm... interesting feedback. I have not pulled the trigger on the Hydros Pro yet - it was only the choice after much reading; I only ever used standard cheap BCDs that you get in divecenters with rental equipment. But I find the wing style very interesting and it makes sense to me. Also, we are a young family, fit and strong swimmers... so some "concerns" about the wing being less accomodating when floating on the surface fully inflated is not an issue - I prefer to focus on buoyancy and comfort under water. But the coment of "oversize" does raise a question...
What would then in your opinion be a "best choice" for a BCD that has relatively modern design and is a good fit for a slim body type, preferably lightweight for travel?


@Pressurehead : good to hear of your positive experience with Hydros Pro. Any further thoughts whether I am going in the right direction or are there alternatives you'd suggest to also consider still?

I listed a couple, the Scubapro LiteHawk (back inflate) and Scubapro Go (wrap around). These evolved from an earlier Scubapro BC, the Equater. I claim no expertise here. I predate the BC era and transitioned from none to a wing/BP circa 1976 with some use of a horse collar type betwixt. I have rented an Equator some years back when I had an inflator problem and mostly as a lark from monotony. It was okay and I quite enjoyed having pockets to put stuff in that I do not need.

If you like the Hydro$ then maybe just have a little more research and a closer look at how they configure before investing $$ in several sets for your entire family. You might find that they are what you want.

Yes, it is true that a wing/BP is not going to float you high and dry like a Lazy Boy chair but underwater they are superb. Everything is a compromise and from the description you give of your self and family it may be a road to travel.

Be warned, forums are usually populated with enthusiasts in whatever the subject is. Or disgruntled folks and such. This is an enthusiast board, everything gets dissected to minutia. The Force is strong here with wings/BPs .

 

[shurite7]

First, you can’t go wrong with either the Apeks or SP choices you’ve made,

The Apeks XTX200 is actually the reference to the second stage, although in the US market if refers to both stages; normally it is paired with the FSR first stage. This set up compares to ScubaPro’s Mk17 / G260 regulator set up.

It used to be a piston was preferred over a diaphragm first stage for deep diving because the piston allowed greater airflow. This has changed, especially with the Mk19EVO. It use to be (for the most part still is) an environmentally closed diaphragm first stage was preferred over a piston when diving in cold (below ~45F) water because the expanding air going through the first stage didn’t drop in temperature as much or as fast is a piston dig, hence reducing the likely hood of the first stage icing up and allowing free flow. The EVO has significantly improved the performance in cold water allowing the Mk25EVO better stability. I’ve iced dived with a Mk25EVO and Mk17 with no issues, but still prefer an environmentally closed diaphragm..

The biggest difference between a piston versus an environmentally sealed diaphragm, for recreational diving limits, is the sealed reg will keep debris from getting in. With that being stated I’ve serviced several environmentally sealed regs that had salt crystals in the inside primarily because people didn’t rinse their equipment (more accurately didn’t even try to take care of), while I’ve also serviced pistons regs that were rinsed well look rather clean on the inside. Do keep in mind, a diaphragm first stage that is not environmentally sealed will allow water into first stage spring that senses ambient water pressure just like a piston reg; in both style of regs water is not supposed to get into the HP chamber.

The S620Ti second stage will hold up well in cold fresh/salt and warm tropical salt water due the titanium housing/barrel inside the case. Although I am a fan of the G260 and XTX200 second stages, I have found the S620Ti to be a very good second stage and easy to service.

The real question you need to answer is support for the regs. Can you get it serviced or checked locally and in a timely manner or do you have to send it off and wait for a long period of time. I’ve spoken with people who owned a particular brand, but can’t get any local support because no one serviced it or if a problem occurred they spent unnecessary money and time shipping to a far off destination. In addition they lacked the ability to actually speak with someone to answer questions regarding their gear.

I am in favor of a backplate and wing, but have found the Hydros to very comfortable for diving. The only time I didn’t like it was for teaching, primarily because the other divers didn’t have a back inflation and therefore didn’t quite relate when it came to demonstrating skills, although I could make it work; I just prefer to be in the exact same style as my students when teaching in the pool.
They Hydros works well in cold and warm water, whether fresh or salt. I’ve spoken with many people who own one and the vast majority like and enjoy diving with their hydros.