Observations during gf's cert. class

[jrhudson]

An agency is ultimately responsible for the quality of its instructors. But since instructors = money, and monitoring instructors = expense, they're unlikely to do so when official complaints aren't filed.

Unfortunately this is something that I cannot disagree with. I guess the only solution is to check out the reputation of an instructor or LDS prior to or instead of blindly handing over your money.

 

[PittCaleb]

I am glad I know the tables, because I can always verify what a computer tells me. I haven't yet had a computer to dive, and in so many ways I am thankful, because I have to learn to rely on that big pink thing in my head more...

I am a very new diver myself, just did my 10th dive this weekend, in 50 degree water...

In the 6 dives I've done since certification, all but one of them, an 11 minute equipment check dive, have been "off the charts" with respect to the tables being at all useful. Go to 63' for 62 minutes and you're at a decompression dive with the tables. 71 feet for 51 minutes Saturday as I touched bottom at a wreck site in a Quarry with a very experienced friend & dive buddy. Average depth for the dive was 35', but touching at 71' and 51 minutes, the charts tell me I'm in the red and done for the day.

It's funny, as a pilot and engineer, I want to do the charts for every dive, but it's becoming clear to me that it's almost useless as every dive I do is over-limit according to them. The $400 I spent on a computer has been the best money I put into diving, definitely.

Cheers,
PittCaleb

 

[DMDavid]

It's funny, as a pilot and engineer, I want to do the charts for every dive, but it's becoming clear to me that it's almost useless as every dive I do is over-limit according to them. The $400 I spent on a computer has been the best money I put into diving, definitely.

But some day when you're on a $3500 trip to some exotic location with your $400 dive computer and the $20 battery decides to die on you then you'll be extremely proud and happy with yourself for having and knowing how to use your $2 plastic dive tables instead of having to scrub your dive and possibly your trip.

Food for thought.

 

[drrich2]

I wonder how many people in that scenario would simply dive alongside a buddy and count on his computer?

It's an interesting question; how many people with a dive computer failure actually turn to tables? It happens, yes, but I wonder what percentage of the time?

Richard.

 

[RedCash02]

Getting back to the original subject of this thread...

GF had her checkout dives this weekend. The conditions weren't great: 5-10 ft vis, some current, and an average surf entry/exit. All the instructors were anchoring floats and running out lines. Max depth was about 25ft with a temp of 56F. I was in the water one of the days and can attest the conditions were pretty sub-par.

People were just doing the drills and hitting the 20 minute min so they could log it. That means the only buoyancy practice students got is when they had to let go of the rope to do fin pivots and navigation. My gf's group did get to swim around for about 5 minutes on the last dive, though. Apparently, her class did really well with the compass training. They definitely weren't cheating in these conditions; I had a crystal clear Florida spring, so I had to promise my instructor I wasn't looking.

There's a lot of classes that come here on the weekend so it's quite a spectacle to watch all of them doing surf entries and exits for the first time. The scariest people weren't the students; it was some of the certified divers. Forgetting to take mask off your forehead, not putting reg in mouth, dropping a fin, standing in the surf waiting on buddy not noticing a much larger wave that knocks you on your back and causes you to start panicking, etc.

Can't wait to get her out diving. She's getting her own gear. Couldn't convince her to try a backplate, but she now loves Zeagle thanks to me

 

[RedCash02]

I wonder how many people in that scenario would simply dive alongside a buddy and count on his computer?

It's an interesting question; how many people with a dive computer failure actually turn to tables? It happens, yes, but I wonder what percentage of the time?

Richard.

I've read enough stories on here about people doing guided dives and not paying attention to anything. Then they come on here and ask if what's wrong with them is DCS before trying to seek any medical attention . Sometimes they don't have a computer and don't even realize their dives go beyond the NDL on the tables, until someone starts lecturing them on here. So using a buddy's computer or diving without the tables sounds pretty reasonable to me.

 

[DBailey]

Sadly, the students aren't even given a table. They're told to skip the section and knowledge review that deals tables in the OW manual. The "How to Use and Choose Dive Computers" book has a replacement knowledge review.

The tables were a tool used to teach dive planning. The theory behind the tables and the impacts on the body were always covered elsewhere in the material. I will admit that the graphical layout of the table was useful in illustrating some of the points.

If properly taught, the computer as a tool is just replacing the table. The diver can still properly plan the dive. Now it just involves button pushing instead of following a column or row on the table.

In my opinion, to many people confuse "learning the tables" with decompression theory.

 

[Herk_Man]

I'm not affiliated with PADI and don't say this to support them. But I do really get irked when people bash a company because they are trying to make money. Kind of the definition of a company. If you don't like their product, don't buy it. It's simple. And if enough people don't like the product and don't buy it, the company ceases to exist. Also simple. But don't get all up in arms about the company trying to increase its bottom line by charging for their services or generating revenue from advertising. It's how other people less creative and more risk-averse get jobs and feed their families. Companies make money and pay them, for their services. Come to think of it... shame on those employees for insisting on a paycheck!

Off soap box, back in the water.

 

[DMDavid]

If properly taught, the computer as a tool is just replacing the table. The diver can still properly plan the dive. Now it just involves button pushing instead of following a column or row on the table.

I compare this part to my flight training years ago and how they do it now.
Imagine being trained to fly by GPS only and one day at the airport they cancel the flight because the GPS isn't working and your pilot can't read an aeronautical map so he can't fly from VOR to VOR.

Dive computer dies = Dive cancelled.

 

[Blackwood]

But I do really get irked when people bash a company because they are trying to make money.

Agreed. But I don't think people bash PADI because they are for-profit. I think people bash PADI when they perceive that the pursuit of profit is being put ahead of quality/safety.