O2 cleaning question

[PfcAJ]

I think there is a high probability that you dont really know what you're talking about
Lubrication Technology | Oxygen Safe Lubricants

 

[JahJahwarrior]

PfcAJ, I do not know the name brand Christolube but check the lable and you should find it is 100% silicone. The ultrasonic cleaner with simplegreen is used to clean corrosion off parts but has nothing to do with oxygen cleaning. I do not know what kind of fairy stories these dive shops are telling people to justify charging what they do just to change some o-rings. If you being charged anything more then the price of an overhaul you are being ripped off.

WOAH!!! That is WRONG! Christolube and Tribolube are NOT SILICONE, and silicone should NOT be used around oxygen.

Simplegreen and ultrasonic cleaning are used to remove both corrosion and hydrocarbons, from nooks and crannies and things that aren't removed by a simple rinse with a degreasing agent.

I am sorry that you disagree with these statements but to claim that Christolube is silicone is wrong!

 

[Hallmac]

PfcAJ, I do not know the name brand Christolube but check the label and you should find it is 100% silicone. The ultrasonic cleaner with simple green is used to clean corrosion off parts but has nothing to do with oxygen cleaning. I do not know what kind of fairy stories these dive shops are telling people to justify charging what they do just to change some o-rings. If you being charged anything more then the price of an overhaul you are being ripped off.

Let's get you back on track, someplace you have been miss-informed on silicone based lubricants, hydrocarbons, and oxygen cleaning.

1st, Christolube is not silicone. it is Perfluoropolyethers (PFPE)

2nd, simple green and others are designed to loosen and remove carbon based materials, also know as hydrocarbons, aka stuff that likes to burn with oxygen. By the way, oxygen does not burn it is an oxidizer.

3rd, Silicones like to bind to hydrocarbons, they have an affinity for the stuff. by them selves they are not totally stable:

Silicon forms silane, SiH4, which is analogous to methane, CH4. However, the two gases are quite different. Methane can be bubbled through water, but silane is immediately hydrolyzed: SiH4 + 3H2O → H2SiO3 + 3H2, since silicon has a hunger for oxygen. There are analogues to the alkanes, such as Si2H6, Si3H8, and so on,
where there are Si-Si bonds. The last-mentioned compound, and all higher ones, are pyrophoric, bursting into flame even with only atmospheric oxygen available.

Third of all, it is possible to overhaul anything and introduce more hydrocarbons than remove. (Fingerprint oils, body hairs, skin cells) While it is not necessary to oxygen clean and service rate a regulator if a person is using nitrox mixtures below 40% you must remember that the more hydrocarbons you mix with oxygen the greater the chance of incident possibilities. Thus, all manufactures, training agencies, legal departments, and accident management members will recommend using hydrocarbon free materials in environments with increased levels of oxygen concentration.

While there are Silicone based materials that are in-fact the preferred material to be used in Oxygen based environments there are many other Silicone based materials that are more dangerous. Silicone loves hydrocarbons, try wiping lipstick off a mouthpiece and you will understand.

I think you based your believe off partial information and that is common for all of us, but in this case the rest of the story is where the danger lies.

 

[giles45shop]

PfcAJ, I do not know the name brand Christolube but check the lable and you should find it is 100% silicone

It's pretty apparent that your knowledge of oxygen cleaning and oxygen compatibility is seriously lacking. I'm sure that almost anyone who has any experience servicing regs or equipment for oxygen service should be aware of one of the big three manufacturers in regards to oxygen safe lubricants. Do the trade names "Tribolube" or "Krytox" have any meaning for you? If not, it would probably be in everyone's best interest that you simply listen to those who are more experienced in these matters. It would be safer for all concerned.

Thanks,

John

 

[fire_diver]

It's pretty apparent that your knowledge of oxygen cleaning and oxygen compatibility is seriously lacking. I'm sure that almost anyone who has any experience servicing regs or equipment for oxygen service should be aware of one of the big three manufacturers in regards to oxygen safe lubricants. Do the trade names "Tribolube" or "Krytox" have any meaning for you? If not, it would probably be in everyone's best interest that you simply listen to those who are more experienced in these matters. It would be safer for all concerned.

Thanks,

John

But, but, but, Mr Keller "trusted my knowledge of what worked and what did not from the perspective of living in a saturation diving system while doing a job in the North Sea."

 

[Rich Keller]

Let me try this again, I will type slower, break down the sentence into smaller, easier to understand parts and explain in detail each part. First "I do not know the name brand Christolube" Now that seems easy to understand so how do you get from that part of the statement that I know or am saying anything about this product? For those having trouble following even that I will break it down further "I do not know" Second "check the label and you should find it is 100% silicone." I will admit this is a little harder to follow and if you did not get the "I do not know" part you may as well stop reading now. I told him what he "should find" NOT what he would find. Now if your still here let me explain what I also do not know, I do not know the name brand of any silicone grease, all I look for is that it is 100% silicone. This is simple stuff made more complicated by the people trying to sell you these products. While I am sure that giles45shop could tell you the merits of one 100% silicone grease over the other I will settle for the 100% part and leave it at that. I think the real issue with him, as in the "shop" part of his handle and fire_diver who has his shop link at the bottom of every message is that they have product to sell you and you need to buy this BS in order for them to sell you that product. I have nothing to sell you! Look up saturation diving and the risks before you dismiss what I have to say. Again I will break this down a bit "look up" this is something thay have not asked you to do, thay would rather you just do as you are told!

 

[bvanant]

.

3rd, Silicones like to bind to hydrocarbons, they have an affinity for the stuff. by them selves they are not totally stable:

Silicon forms silane, SiH4, which is analogous to methane, CH4. However, the two gases are quite different. Methane can be bubbled through water, but silane is immediately hydrolyzed: SiH4 + 3H2O → H2SiO3 + 3H2, since silicon has a hunger for oxygen. There are analogues to the alkanes, such as Si2H6, Si3H8, and so on,
where there are Si-Si bonds. The last-mentioned compound, and all higher ones, are pyrophoric, bursting into flame even with only atmospheric oxygen available.

While there are Silicone based materials that are in-fact the preferred material to be used in Oxygen based environments there are many other Silicone based materials that are more dangerous. Silicone loves hydrocarbons, try wiping lipstick off a mouthpiece and you will understand.

I think you based your believe off partial information and that is common for all of us, but in this case the rest of the story is where the danger lies.

At the risk of igniting even more controversy, I think that you don't quite understand silicone chemistry. While it is true that silane (SiH4) is not the most nice of chemicals, silicones used in diving are for the most part polydimethylsiloxanes (PDMS). They don't have any particular affinity for hydrocarbons but they do stick tenaciously to many surfaces (including metals). They do not have Si-Si bonds but rather they have Si-O-Si bonds and they are remarkably stable, much more so than most hydrocarbons and in normal oxygen environments PDMS is non-flammable and many are used as fire retardants. Of course at 100% O2 that is not the case, but in general silicone materials are no where near as dangerous as you suggest.

Bill

 

[rjack321]

Let me try this again, I will type slower, break down the sentence into smaller, easier to understand parts and explain in detail each part. First "I do not know the name brand Christolube" Now that seems easy to understand so how do you get from that part of the statement that I know or am saying anything about this product? For those having trouble following even that I will break it down further "I do not know" Second "check the label and you should find it is 100% silicone." I will admit this is a little harder to follow and if you did not get the "I do not know" part you may as well stop reading now. I told him what he "should find" NOT what he would find. Now if your still here let me explain what I also do not know, I do not know the name brand of any silicone grease, all I look for is that it is 100% silicone. This is simple stuff made more complicated by the people trying to sell you these products. While I am sure that giles45shop could tell you the merits of one 100% silicone grease over the other I will settle for the 100% part and leave it at that. I think the real issue with him, as in the "shop" part of his handle and fire_diver who has his shop link at the bottom of every message is that they have product to sell you and you need to buy this BS in order for them to sell you that product. I have nothing to sell you! Look up saturation diving and the risks before you dismiss what I have to say. Again I will break this down a bit "look up" this is something thay have not asked you to do, thay would rather you just do as you are told!

I just wanted to quote this so you couldn't go back and edit it. Absolute classic. Thanks again. back to my

 

[JahJahwarrior]

Let me try this again, I will type slower, break down the sentence into smaller, easier to understand parts and explain in detail each part. First "I do not know the name brand Christolube" Now that seems easy to understand so how do you get from that part of the statement that I know or am saying anything about this product? For those having trouble following even that I will break it down further "I do not know" Second "check the label and you should find it is 100% silicone." I will admit this is a little harder to follow and if you did not get the "I do not know" part you may as well stop reading now. I told him what he "should find" NOT what he would find. Now if your still here let me explain what I also do not know, I do not know the name brand of any silicone grease, all I look for is that it is 100% silicone. This is simple stuff made more complicated by the people trying to sell you these products. While I am sure that giles45shop could tell you the merits of one 100% silicone grease over the other I will settle for the 100% part and leave it at that. I think the real issue with him, as in the "shop" part of his handle and fire_diver who has his shop link at the bottom of every message is that they have product to sell you and you need to buy this BS in order for them to sell you that product. I have nothing to sell you! Look up saturation diving and the risks before you dismiss what I have to say. Again I will break this down a bit "look up" this is something thay have not asked you to do, thay would rather you just do as you are told!

Let me break this down for YOU: Christolube and Tribolube are NOT 100% SILICONE. You are claiming that they are. That is a false statement, and a potentially dangerous one. The fact that you aren't selling anything doesn't make your false statement any more true.

 

[fire_diver]

I think the real issue with him, as in the "shop" part of his handle and fire_diver who has his shop link at the bottom of every message is that they have product to sell you and you need to buy this BS in order for them to sell you that product.

SHOP?

Lets see.... first, it's a website about places other than oceans to dive in.
Second, it's not even my website. I just like it and think a lot of people can benefit from it.

Troll away Mr. Keller, troll away! :mooner: