NTSB-like clearinghouse for diving accidents?

[tep]

I would have thought that this would have come up before, but I couldn't find anything anywhere...

What would it take to create a public database of diving accidents? The NTSB accident DB (one page is at http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/AccList.asp?month=2&year=2008 )
is widely used by manufacturers, instructors and student pilots.

I've seen the DAN summaries, but never the raw incident data. And I don't know how that data is collected. I assume voluntary, but it's certainly not comprehensive. For this forum we seem to be stuck with general media reports and eyewitnesses who come forward for the incident information...

Obviously the NTSB (and FAA) DBs are created as part of the regulatory process, and have lots of dedicated staff, but even having an overall searchable DB, even without the full analysis would be helpful.

I see a few problems:

1. I would not want to see additional govt regulation of our sport, so having this be a govt function would be problematical.

2. Liability - NTSB/FAA reports are used in legal proceedings, we wouldn't want to be in that situation.

3. Neutrality - this would have to be independent of all the certification agencies and manufacturers, for obvious reasons.

4. Cost - Who would pay?

On the one hand, it would be a great resource for addressing systemic and repeating issues that continue to be problems. If a practice is causing problems, let's improve training, or gear so that we reduce the impact of that practice.

On the other hand, this would take lots of time and money and expertise.

Would it be worth it?

 

[DeputyDan]

I would be 100% against it.

 

[PhilEllis]

I think the comprehensive collection of data on dive accidents would be next to impossible. With MOST databases of this nature, they work well under the force of law. With scuba diving, I don't know what would compel people to supply such data, especially when supplying it might work against their own personal interests. The cost of collecting such data would be quite expensive, and given that there is no one that feels that they would be helped by the data, I can't imagine anyone paying for its collection.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment

 

[sporket]

"I would be 100% against it."



What he said.

 

[trtldvr]

Last year the Monroe County Sheriff's Office released reports of the dive and snorkle fatalities that they had investigated here in the Keys for 06 and 05. They were released so that poeple may learn from them.I had posted them here http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/190716-fl-keys-accident-reports.html and we had posted them on our safe dive innitiative web site Florida Keys Safe Diving Initiative . A few ( and I do stress FEW) of the opporators had a proverbial seacow so it was taken off the divealive page. I figure they did not know about the scubaboard thread.

safediving
trtldvr
Florida Keys Safe Diving Initiative

 

[shoupart]

DeputyDan and Sporket, why are you against it?

I'm neutral on it, but I'm curious to hear your reasons.

 

[tc]

It would be nearly impossible unless you found a way to suspend patient privacy laws in order to publish the information.

Even the DAN info has to be voluntarily submitted by the patient in most cases. Not sure how other chambers handle it but we give them the DAN form and let them know what the data collected is used for- up to them if they want to send it in or not.

The investigations into dive accidents are conducted by many local agencies (if at all) and pulling the information together would be a pretty massive undertaking unless there were some form of national oversight/enforcement/investigatory authority created.

 

[optimator]

There is also an example from climbing called "Accidents in North American Mountaineering". It's a very interesting read. The accidents span the gambit from beginner mistakes to the "oh yea, that's a really good thing not to do".

I would be interested to see something similar for scuba diving.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

Even the DAN info has to be voluntarily submitted by the patient in most cases.

I don't think that's correct. (And if it were, how would they get the fatality info since dead men tell no tales . . . and don't release their info?) My understanding is that the Chambers submit the info to DAN and simply redact (cross out) anything that can identify a specific person.

As some of you may know, I'm a forensic consultant for the LA County Coroner. For scuba fatalities out here, I test the equipment and write an accident analysis that's then part of the overall autopsy report and which is public information.

One of the things we've wrestled with is how to make this information more accessible to the public. I truly believe (as do the two main Coroner's Investigators - both of whom are divers) that making this info publicly acccessible can help prevent future accidents. And for those worried about liability (I also do work as a defendant's expert witness) these reports are available to plaintiff's attorneys so it's not like anything would be revealed that isn't already known to the aggrieved parties.

We haven't solved the access issue yet (put it on the Coroner's website, the Catalina Chamber website, another website???) but one thing that we do is do an annual panel discussion at the Long Beach Scuba Show called "Why Divers Die" and give three actual case studies from the previous year, tell what the known facts of the accident, what treatment they got or didn't get at the Chamber, and what the subsequent gear testing and analysis found. We hope that, in some small way, we can elevate people's consciousness with these panels and improve diver safety.

I'd also be curious to know why DeputyDan and Sporket are against releasing this type of info.

- Ken

 

[tep]

Rats, posted in the wrong thread: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/3403990-post45.html

Basically, any data is better than no data, and even small sample sets can yield good results.