notice to the Freaks ...

[TCDiver1]

Bob (Grateful Diver),

I am not an official OFWF as I live in the States. But I have spent most of my diving time with the freaks. Without this section of the board I would not have met any of them nor would I have a chance to keep in touch and schedule any more trips with them. They truly are a great bunch and the friendship they have shown me is better then any of the locals I have here. Please keep me in mind if you decide to elminate this section!!

Heather.

Heather, as Bob stated, he alone does not have the ability to eliminate this section. Again, if it happens, it would take a majority vote of Mods & Supers. Which is not as easy a thing as one might imagine. Otherwise the OFWF would have been gone long ago.

There was more divisive stuff going on in here than anywhere else on SB combined, including the DIR section (repeat, including the DIR section.) Not sure of all the reasons for that but one reason for sure relates to competing business interests and the games they were playing. I seriously doubt many members want to open that door to all businesses.

It's a shame when the few spoil it for the many but that is the way life works. The OFWF didn't regulate itself so it was done by others. OFWF is still here, albeit in a slightly different form. Life goes on.

 

[Boogie711]

including the DIR section (repeat, including the DIR section.)

Obvious immature slam noted. (Repeat - obvious immature slam noted.)

Once again - the conduct by some of the moderators in the OFWF section is just head-shakingly sad.

Especially, since YOU, Gedunk, were the infamous moderator who CREATED the "militia" nickname in the firstplace. You were the one to jump all over me when I posted a response praising good customer service by a "competing business interest."

There are some wonderful moderators on Scubaboard. Bob, for example, qualifies, or Uncle Pug. I've had great interaction with Natasha and June and a whole bunch of others... but:

This entire thing is a tempest in a teapot, and I can't help but feel it's been started by a select group of Scubaboard moderators.

Deny all you want, but read what we're trying to say here... there's no issue other than the ones that a few people who happen to be moderators (and whose conduct has been less than admirable) happen to claim to see.

 

[snuggle]

i guess you mean your conduct at times too right?this change im sure was a long time in coming...like the ol saying goes .it only takes a few to ruin it for everyone else..

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Obvious immature slam noted. (Repeat - obvious immature slam noted.)

Once again - the conduct by some of the moderators in the OFWF section is just head-shakingly sad.

Dunno Boogie ... but I think you've read what he said wrong.

The DIR forum does get pretty contentious at times ... despite the extra protections afforded it to prevent it from happening. I think he was just noting the reality, not making a statement pro or con as regards the content of the forum.

Especially, since YOU, Gedunk, were the infamous moderator who CREATED the "militia" nickname in the firstplace. You were the one to jump all over me when I posted a response praising good customer service by a "competing business interest."

I'm not aware of where the term started ... but I will tell you that my first notice of it was in Tom's screen name (not sure if the misspelling was intentional) and a picture I saw somewhere of all you guys wearing black berets. Truth to tell, I thought it was just an inside joke of some sort.

There are some wonderful moderators on Scubaboard. Bob, for example, qualifies, or Uncle Pug. I've had great interaction with Natasha and June and a whole bunch of others... but:

We've come a long way, haven't we Boogie. I remember when you and me used to butt heads a lot. Then, once, we decided to take it offline ... got to know each other a bit ... and developed a sense of respect for each other. Been friends ever since.

I think more people should try that tactic ... if someone says something that bugs you, drop them a PM and say "what's that all about" ... it's amazing how your perspective changes with a bit of honest, one-on-one conversation.

This entire thing is a tempest in a teapot, and I can't help but feel it's been started by a select group of Scubaboard moderators.

Deny all you want, but read what we're trying to say here... there's no issue other than the ones that a few people who happen to be moderators (and whose conduct has been less than admirable) happen to claim to see.

Well ... not sure I can agree with that. There's really two issues here ... one that was created by a particular thread which I deleted, and one that's far longer-running than that thread ... and leaves an overall impression of this forum that nobody should be proud of.

With regards to the former, you have (at least in part) a valid point. With regard to the latter, it's a behavioral pattern that needs to be addressed ... and in truth, the reason we tried the opt-in approach.

With regards to moderators, sometimes I think people have a hard time remembering that moderators are also people who are entitled to express an opinion. We can express our views ... even strong views on subjects being discussed. We can sometimes say things that are not interpreted as we intended them to be ... and, yes, can even develop a dislike for specific posters or topics. Sometimes we'll even behave in ways that we aren't, in hindsight, proud of.

We have rules in place that prevent moderators from moderating threads they're actively involved in. That's so we can post our opinions uninhibited by the constraints of the position ... and without the potential for abusing the position. Unless a moderator is actively moderating a thread, you should consider them as just another poster. Because once we've started a thread, or become an active participant in one, we are just regular posters ... by getting involved in the conversation we've disqualified ourselves from moderating it.

So the point is this ... just because someone's a moderator doesn't mean that everything they say represents the views of the SB staff ... or that their stated opinions somehow represent a "conspiracy" to impose ourselves on our membership. Sometimes ... probably safe to say most of the time ... we're simply expressing ourselves just as any other poster on here is entitled to. And if we cross the line and create a controversy, we're held to the same standards.

Which is why the moderator-bashing gets a little tiresome sometimes ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TCDiver1]

Obvious immature slam noted. (Repeat - obvious immature slam noted.)

Well Jeff, there you go again. You really read into that one.

All i meant was a lot of drama, arguing, pissing an moaning, etc, goes on the DIR section. I don't make it that way, its just the way it is. How immature must one be to conclude something that isn't there? The chip on your shoulder must be massive.

Especially, since YOU, Gedunk, were the infamous moderator who CREATED the "militia" nickname in the firstplace. You were the one to jump all over me when I posted a response praising good customer service by a "competing business interest."

LOL! Am i suppose to be ashamed to have hung a moniker on that crew that is appropriate? It must be appropriate if some of you are using it in your title. I stick by it for the ones involved and the antics that were perpetrated. It fits.

Deny all you want, but read what we're trying to say here... there's no issue other than the ones that a few people who happen to be moderators (and whose conduct has been less than admirable) happen to claim to see.

You might be surprised what moderators happen to have seen, the same things the alledged few, happen to have seen. Yes, you would be surprised.

 

[Boogie711]

Jon - I'm sorry - Bob is right, I misread that one.

Things are STILL too heated around here, but yeah, I screwed that one up, and I'm sorry. I (erroneously) read it more like "Things spill over and the fallout even gets into the DIR section." Given our previous discussions on the DIR presence in Ontario, I put two and two together and came up with four and a half.

But incidentally - yes, Gedunk - you were the first one to ever coin the term "NTD Militia." It's when I relayed that to Tom that he decided it was funny enough to pose in some pictures making fun of the term.

------------------

Look, I know what I've seen in this forum... including personal, petty and vindictive attacks by moderators to board members which would normally merit a suspension. I told one member to download his PM's just in case they disappeared - because they could be used as evidence in a civil suit or even criminal charges if it came to that. Yes, it got THAT bad.

Sadly, that particular moderator wasn't the only moderator to act that way - a completely separate moderator was downright ignorant to Aquaoren, who has as little to do with these "competing business interests" as anyone.

Thanks to Pete's version of 'Blind Justice,' we have no way of knowing if anything was ever even said to those people, much less any form of discipline. And so when you get a "Notice to the Freaks" thread dominated by other Florida-based SB moderators, you have to understand why the Ontarians are more than a little skeptical that things are 'above board.'

But long story short, it doesn't matter. Obviously, tempers are still raw. I (along with a good number of other 'Freaks') are backing off. As we've often been told to do, we're going to play in another sandbox. Maybe someday this will settle down, and I look forward to that day.

But in the meantime, since there is an obvious risk of saying stuff that I and others are just going to regret later, a bunch of us are just going to go away. Maybe in a few days everyone will be relaxed enough to discuss this like the adults we should be.

 

[Sirius Diver]

Would you all like to take this somewhere else but the OFWF? I try to ignore the whole thing but it's "in your face" all the time. Let's just all get back to diving. Nobody is going to win this arguement so just drop it. It's not a demand or a new TOS, I'm just pleading to you that this thread stop. I think there is more than just me being tired of this.

Thanks for listening.

 

[aquaoren]

Obvious immature slam noted. (Repeat - obvious immature slam noted.)

Once again - the conduct by some of the moderators in the OFWF section is just head-shakingly sad.

Especially, since YOU, Gedunk, were the infamous moderator who CREATED the "militia" nickname in the firstplace. You were the one to jump all over me when I posted a response praising good customer service by a "competing business interest."

There are some wonderful moderators on Scubaboard. Bob, for example, qualifies, or Uncle Pug. I've had great interaction with Natasha and June and a whole bunch of others... but:

This entire thing is a tempest in a teapot, and I can't help but feel it's been started by a select group of Scubaboard moderators.

Deny all you want, but read what we're trying to say here... there's no issue other than the ones that a few people who happen to be moderators (and whose conduct has been less than admirable) happen to claim to see.

Why are you wasting your breath?
As Bob said, this is their house and it would be impolite to go to someones house and tell them their breath stinks even if it does.
I could tell them that if they would have bothered reading the deleted thread, they would've noticed that moderators were participating in the same thread they were moderating. I'm not doing it
I could tell them, that impartiality isn't existant when a moderator with the words "GDI-Diver" under his avatar moderates an inflamatory thread started by GDI, I'm not wasting my time

Boogie, even if they would see what went wrong, which some probably do, none of them would admit it publicly because they have to stick together since they have common "business interests" being the managment of the board. You see, they have to support each other because next time they will screw up, they want the other moderators to support them. As Bob said, moderators are people as well I consider such behaviour to be spineless but some people would call it "integrity"

 

[TCDiver1]

Jon - I'm sorry - Bob is right, I misread that one.

Well i'm sorry what i wrote was perceived that way. I can only tell you its the last thing i intended and hope you believe that.

You know, before i got sucked into this Mod thing, i saw a lot more conspiracy going on in the back room on SB than is really there. I came back here expecting, i don't know, a bunch of juicy, x-files type, SB stuff. Its just not there like i believed as a regular member.

What i do see is a relatively small group of people trying their best to keep the peace, protect those who don't protect themselves well and generally trying to make SB a fun place to be. And that is the Gods honest truth as i see it back here. A lot of honorable work goes on in the back room for little or no recognition. That is a fact.

We don't always agree and we aren't always right but most are doing their level best to accomplish that goal as they see it.

I look forward to the day we quit typing at each other and go diving togeather. I'll even come to you guys as long as you keep Dans sniper rifle under lock and key.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Would you all like to take this somewhere else but the OFWF? I try to ignore the whole thing but it's "in your face" all the time. Let's just all get back to diving. Nobody is going to win this arguement so just drop it. It's not a demand or a new TOS, I'm just pleading to you that this thread stop. I think there is more than just me being tired of this.

Thanks for listening.

Yes ... someone is listening.

And you're right ... this thread is degenerating into just the sort of thing we're trying to prevent.

Can't edit the negative remarks ... for reasons I've already discussed.

But I can keep it from going any further down that path ... thread closed.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)