Not everyone thinks cave diving is the pinnacle of SCUBA!

[kotik]

Not us! Not us!! Not us either!!!

Does that help?

I'm going to hold out until voices 5 & 6 chime in to make sure you have a real consensus.

 

[sskasser]

I'm going to hold out until voices 5 & 6 chime in to make sure you have a real consensus.

We'll have you know Shirleys 5 and 6 are SANE!

 

[Dsix36]

We'll have you know Shirleys 5 and 6 are SANE!

Coming from which Shirley?? I think I will wait for proof.

 

[DaleC]

By the way, how'd things work out at at Kelvin Grove? Last time I dived there a few of the neighbors were trying to get the site declared off-limits to divers ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Kelvin is one of the few cases where that sort of thing occurs - probably because it is a fairly affluent community.

Some cranky pants didn't like strangers coming around so they tried to specifically ban divers access to the water. In Canada private people can't "own" below the tide line. There was some back and forth talk and then they realized they were violating charter (constitutional) rights (we have them too!). Plus, a resident offered to invite any diver as their personal guest to bypass the whole thing. The town council backed down on the ban and made a set number of visitor parking spaces, which was great because before that we had to buy a parking pass.
Last time I checked it was good for a while, then the same cranky pants acted up again and they tried to limit parking spaces. It's still open for diving though.

Two points about the US in your area chaff my ash though. One is Edmonds and the no soloing rule - which is funny because that is the perfect solo site. And the other is further south at Crater Lake, OR. No soloing either. I was gearing up to do that but it's hard to convince someone else of that kind of road trip for a lake. Dang.

On the positive side: PNW divers are a very friendly bunch. I like the laid back attitude.

 

[shoredivr]

Crater Lake is on my list.

 

[TSandM]

I don't mind the no solo rule at Edmonds, but I sure wish they'd allow scooters. It's the absolutely PERFECT scooter site!

 

[DaleC]

I don't mind the no scooter policy...

but if I get one I will

 

[billgraham]

Are wreck divers as evangelical as cave divers? From what the OP said, it sounds like if one lives in cave country, they might feel bombarded by cave diving evangelism. What about someone who lives in an area where there's a community of serious wreck divers? Do they feel just as bombarded? Or do wreck divers tend to keep a lower profile than cave divers?

Or is my premise wrong that cave diving and wreck diving are analogous?

How come when someone tries to keep somebody else from killing themselves, it's "evangelical"? Hilarious.

NE wreck divers usually don't care what you're doing, but you might find yourself on the "boat is full" list if you do something stupid and manage to survive it.

You sound like the beach bum surfer bullies who think that the coasts are for them only.

So what if the other divers are untrained? Where does it say that you're responsible for their safety? Where does it say that the caves/caverns belong to you?

You dive your dive and they dive their dives. Hell, even you cave divers get killed with all your fancy trainings and equipment. Diving is DANGEROUS. If people know about the danger but decide to be deliberately ignorant, so what? It's their lives, not yours.

If somebody were to manhandle or chase me underwater, they'd get introduced to a nice, sharp, pointy thing.

Funny you should mention that. I'm a local surfer at a really good spot that's become crowded in recent years and guess what? Somebody needs to keep order out there and it's almost always the local surfers. If you're on the receiving end of some attitude, chances are you did something to earn it.

You can't possibly know what it is you don't know. Without proper training you can't possibly know the risks involved and how to mitigate those risks. Anyone diving in the overhead without the training is a complete idiot.

Yup, Darwin award stuff.

Beyond that, prior to dying, an untrained/unskilled yahoo entering a cave (with or without a 6" pig-sticker) can silt a system out quite easily, rendering it dangerous for others as well.

I'm certainly not following a team of untrained divers into any cave because I'm 100 percent sure I'll get caught in their silt out.

Authorities rarely have the skill set to go retrieve the body ... they have to rely on volunteers who are, um ... cave divers ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Probably closer to "never" so yeah, as Bob says, you're insulting the people who are going to pull your body out. And that will be happening despite the fact that you "don't ask anyone to do it".

.

We're all big boys and big girls, we all know the dangers of diving beyond our capabilities, and if we let ego/hubris/ignorance gets in the way, then that's that. Pay the ultimate price.

Yeah, it's pretty clear that you have never been around a dive accident.

 

[Lorenzoid]

How come when someone tries to keep somebody else from killing themselves, it's "evangelical"? Hilarious.

NE wreck divers usually don't care what you're doing, but you might find yourself on the "boat is full" list if you do something stupid and manage to survive it.

You're quoting something I said before this thread went off into a debate about cave divers "rescuing" other divers. I was referring to a statement in the original post:

Often times we will start talking and time after time they ask me if I am working towards a cave certification and when I say "No, I am not interested in cave diving" it becomes their mission to convert me. You would think they were Jehova's witnesses with how they hound me about cave diving. "You will be interested," or "you just don't know what you're missing," or "if you take my intro class I will change your mind," one person even said "you're not a real diver until you've seen a cave," and it just keeps coming.

That was what interested me, not anything relating to battles between superhero cave divers and pig stick-wielding open water divers. I don't go into caves, and untrained divers who do are doing a favor to the gene pool.

 

[billgraham]

You're quoting something I said before this thread went off into a debate about cave divers "rescuing" other divers. I was referring to a statement in the original post:

Often times we will start talking and time after time they ask me if I am working towards a cave certification and when I say "No, I am not interested in cave diving" it becomes their mission to convert me. You would think they were Jehova's witnesses with how they hound me about cave diving. "You will be interested," or "you just don't know what you're missing," or "if you take my intro class I will change your mind," one person even said "you're not a real diver until you've seen a cave," and it just keeps coming.

That was what interested me, not anything relating to battles between superhero cave divers and pig stick-wielding open water divers. I don't go into caves, and untrained divers who do are doing a favor to the gene pool.

Wreck diving, at least in the Northeast, tends to be less training oriented and people do all kinds of wild things. That being said, a lot of the younger divers are seeking the cave training to improve their skills for wreck diving. I'm sure there are other ways to get those skills, it's just that you KNOW you're going to be taught them in a cave class. Most of the wreck divers I know who go to Florida for cave training fall in love with it, so that's probably what you're hearing.