Nord Stream Pipeline Video

[SlugLife]

I know that, but how would you gain access in the first place to put the pig in?

If you want to speculate that Russia put a pig in both pipelines, and managed to blow them up at the same time, and in nearby locations, I can find plenty which suggests that's not what happened. For example, I already stated that Nordstream 2 had no gas-flow, and therefore all a pig would do is sit stationary if you put one in the pipe.

I just don't see it to be a valuable exercise to spent lots of time speculating about some 0.1% chance theory, when there are far more plausible and likely scenarios.

 

[DiveProKoko]

As a homicide detective in the real world who does a fair share of critical thinking and dismisses all assumptions, I have to point to the long list of details posted here by our SB community toward motive, means and opportunity. Then I apply Occam's Razor principle and have my answer. The simplest explanation is preferable to one that is more complex and the simplest solution which is consistent with the existing data is preferred. I'd be shocked if we (the US) didn't do it...

 

[admikar]

If you want to speculate that Russia put a pig in both pipelines, and managed to blow them up at the same time, and in nearby locations, I can find plenty which suggests that's not what happened. For example, I already stated that Nordstream 2 had no gas-flow, and therefore all a pig would do is sit stationary if you put one in the pipe.

I just don't see it to be a valuable exercise to spent lots of time speculating about some 0.1% chance theory, when there are far more plausible and likely scenarios.

You got it backwards. It wasn't me that said it was inside job

 

[SlugLife]

You got it backwards. It wasn't me that said it was inside job

Correct, I got you mixed up with the other poster.

 

[Akimbo]

In discussions elsewhere, I've asserted this kind of sabotage doesn't need a "super-secret high-tech submarine assault force." Instead, all you need is some underwater explosives, and either a decent sized commercial drone, or technical divers.

I think you are dramatically underestimating the amount of explosives required. It would take a lot more than a few Haversacks of plastic explosive that tech divers could manage from a small boat. Even blowing a small hole from a shape-charge would require sand bagging or securely clamping to be effective. It would take over a hundred kilograms of high explosives to sever one pipe this large in each location.

Also consider that most of oil and gas pipelines are fully or partially buried in mud, sand, and gravel. Divers can't just place a package on top and expect significant damage. Also, these steel pipes are covered in 2-4"/50-100mm of concrete for weight and protection. Weight is required because they would float without it.

Think about how hard it is to find a small wreck from a small dive boat. Finding four pipes and up to two locations each where they are sufficiently exposed for explosives to be effective without detection would be challenging. Jetting or airlifting to access around the pipe is a big deal. Moving tons of material would be required for each charge. A surface supported operation like this is far from discreate or fast.

For oil pipe-lines, there are these plug-looking things which can be sent down the pipeline to clean it. I'm not sure if that would work on a gas-pipeline, especially with a heavy payload.

These plugs are called pigs and modern high tech pigs are also used for inspection. The problem with the pig theory is pipelines have to be depressurized, the pig inserted through hatch, pressurized behind it, and pressure released at the other end as it travels the pipe. We know the pipelines were pressurized when blown because so much gas was released.

 

[Vicko]

If it was done by a pig it would hade to have been a huge one, that's a lot of dirt and concrete on the outside that was moved by the explosion.
But for the same reason it does not seem plausible to be done by a sub with a dive team, it would take weeks of work, undetected just to get to the pipeline.

 

[Akimbo]

But for the same reason it does not seem plausible to be done by a sub with a dive team, it would take weeks of work, undetected just to get to the pipeline.

Submarines are pretty hard to detect, especially when sitting on the bottom. The Baltic Sea is a very busy and noisy place so hiding is much easier than in the Sea of Okhotsk, where US cable tapping submarines spent weeks at a time over many years.

Sat divers locked out of a sub are known to move pretty large payloads. See Operation Ivy Bells.

 

[iain/hsm]

To kick off my position here first is to simply explain how it is done without explaining how to do it.
The other questions of why I will leave to others.

The Nord pipeline is not as deep as you may have been told and in some parts its within air range
The pipe is uncovered in many areas and its position is well known. We are not told this information

Contrary to other ideas the pipe needs only a small "carry on" charge, the type compound and package not being relevant here.

But the process of the detonation is key as is the design of the pipe itself they both work together.

The process is known as a "jet" and "plug" the jet pierces the shell the plug follows on and blasts a small but bigger hole. Its standard underwater demolition 101 but against a hollow shell this is more in the range of a military diving applications than commercial.

By contrast a sub surface blast with a flooded structure much more compound is required

The second feature is the pipe itself that lends itself for a jet and plug technique. The process is known as area compensation or in this case the lack of it. In any pressure vessel especially a sub surface pipe you use the thinnest wall thickness you can for the pressure with a small corrosion allowance and protected by either external grout, trenching or laying or all three, Other teqniques such as anode placements can be used to catholically protect the structure but not in this case

Now unlike say a decompression chamber where you need to make holes in the shell for things like viewports manways and weldolets you need to calculate in area compensation. Either you make the shell super thick and super heavy expensive etc or you add compensating rings welded to the shell in order to have a smaller open hole inside.

Conversely for a pressurised pipeline you don't use area compensation hence when the diver ROV or UUV team of choice punch a small hole in your pipe its like sticking a pin in a balloon. No difference the Nord Stream pipeline. The pipe tears itself apart and in all counts disappears from the original position of blast, the compound and carrier disappears in the plasma blast and to all intent purposes it never happened should that be the preferred outcome.

I will admit getting it right first time and ensuring the area compensation effect you could persuade me to use more gun powder.

Simple trick at demolition school was to take a filled balloon of "gas" fill it up and stick a pin in it.
Once the instructor had your attention after the bang he then on a second ballon stuck a patch of sellotape on the ballon and repeated the pin trick, nothing happens. some time later the same by now boring trick was repeated but with a match and hydrogen. The lesson was never forgotten.

 

[Manatee Diver]

To kick off my position here first is to simply explain how it is done without explaining how to do it.
The other questions of why I will leave to others.

The Nord pipeline is not as deep as you may have been told and in some parts its within air range
The pipe is uncovered in many areas and its position is well known. We are not told this information

Contrary to other ideas the pipe needs only a small "carry on" charge, the type compound and package not being relevant here.

But the process of the detonation is key as is the design of the pipe itself they both work together.

The process is known as a "jet" and "plug" the jet pierces the shell the plug follows on and blasts a small but bigger hole. Its standard underwater demolition 101 but against a hollow shell this is more in the range of a military diving applications than commercial.

By contrast a sub surface blast with a flooded structure much more compound is required

The second feature is the pipe itself that lends itself for a jet and plug technique. The process is known as area compensation or in this case the lack of it. In any pressure vessel especially a sub surface pipe you use the thinnest wall thickness you can for the pressure with a small corrosion allowance and protected by either external grout, trenching or laying or all three, Other teqniques such as anode placements can be used to catholically protect the structure but not in this case

Now unlike say a decompression chamber where you need to make holes in the shell for things like viewports manways and weldolets you need to calculate in area compensation. Either you make the shell super thick and super heavy expensive etc or you add compensating rings welded to the shell in order to have a smaller open hole inside.

Conversely for a pressurised pipeline you don't use area compensation hence when the diver ROV or UUV team of choice punch a small hole in your pipe its like sticking a pin in a balloon. No difference the Nord Stream pipeline. The pipe tears itself apart and in all counts disappears from the original position of blast, the compound and carrier disappears in the plasma blast and to all intent purposes it never happened should that be the preferred outcome.

I will admit getting it right first time and ensuring the area compensation effect you could persuade me to use more gun powder.

Simple trick at demolition school was to take a filled balloon of "gas" fill it up and stick a pin in it.
Once the instructor had your attention after the bang he then on a second ballon stuck a patch of sellotape on the ballon and repeated the pin trick, nothing happens. some time later the same by now boring trick was repeated but with a match and hydrogen. The lesson was never forgotten.

So P = Plenty?

 

[lexvil]

Has anyone looked at the condition of the pipe edge in the first few seconds of the video?