Non GUE DIR

[darkpup]

It depends on.. if they're DIR or not.

DIR and GUE are two different things. You guys are smart, be reasonable. Seriously.

The only reliable place to learn DIR is through a GUE instructor or one of the associated expedition teams.

If you find an instructor claiming to be able to teach you DIR and he's not a GUE instructor, stop for a second, use your brain, and wonder to yourself why an instructor so motivated to teach DIR *isn't* a GUE instructor.

GUE determines what DIR is. It depends on if they're DIR or not. DIR and GUE are two different things. Where are you going with this?

If AG is no longer DIR because GUE says so, then GUE and DIR are one and the same because GUE determines, by your standards, who is and is not DIR. For the record, AG was kicked out for being subversive - per Panos Alexakos, VP and Director of Quality Control, GUE.

Now I myself have found a former GUE instructor that has taught all of my instructors (probably some of yours too) and hundreds of students around the world that is now teaching through NAUI. Since he was the Technical Instruction Director for GUE for several years, I'm pretty sure anyone who is smart and reasonable would realize that he knows what DIR is. Seriously.

~ Jason

 

[lamont]

I'm telling you, the "DIR" label sucks, and this is exactly why.

You can't hope to come up with a useful answer to the question of "Is an AG student DIR?" without defining what DIR means. And usually the question of "what does DIR mean?" gets flipped on its head with people making up definitions based on how they want questions like "Is an AG student DIR?" to be answered. That is just an excersize in circular logic with no outcome.

On the other hand "Is an AG student certified by GUE?" is (going forwards) going to be answered "No" in an absolutely unarguable way.

Also the question "Is an AG student DIR?" generally is covering up the fact that someone is asking a question like:

- "Should I take a class with AG?"
- "Do I want to dive with people certified by AG?"
- "Do I want to teach people certified by AG?"

And I guarantee you that getting mired in the circular logic of trying to answer "Is an AG student DIR?" is not going to shed any light on those other questions.

And if you want a simple answer to that question -- well, you can always adopt the view that DIR is holistic and all-or-nothing and that if you're not at the end of the line with JJ, Reinhard or NickT that you aren't DIR, and that makes everything real simple... Congrats, we're all strokes.

 

[bridgediver]

It changes when said instructor was tossed out of GUE for not being DIR.


.

If you believe that this is the whole reason why AG was tossed you don't have even half the peices to the puzzle

 

[bridgediver]

geez lamont. For someone who hates the label of DIR you sure post alot in the DIR forum!

Of course you're right but you're taking all the fun out of it! This is right up there with trying to debate the meaning of life


....... I think we're getting close to an answer here on DIR though......

 

[boomx5]

I'm telling you, the "DIR" label sucks, and this is exactly why.

You can't hope to come up with a useful answer to the question of "Is an AG student DIR?" without defining what DIR means. And usually the question of "what does DIR mean?" gets flipped on its head with people making up definitions based on how they want questions like "Is an AG student DIR?" to be answered. That is just an excersize in circular logic with no outcome.

On the other hand "Is an AG student certified by GUE?" is (going forwards) going to be answered "No" in an absolutely unarguable way.

Also the question "Is an AG student DIR?" generally is covering up the fact that someone is asking a question like:

- "Should I take a class with AG?"
- "Do I want to dive with people certified by AG?"
- "Do I want to teach people certified by AG?"

And I guarantee you that getting mired in the circular logic of trying to answer "Is an AG student DIR?" is not going to shed any light on those other questions.

And if you want a simple answer to that question -- well, you can always adopt the view that DIR is holistic and all-or-nothing and that if you're not at the end of the line with JJ, Reinhard or NickT that you aren't DIR, and that makes everything real simple... Congrats, we're all strokes.

I think what is boils down to is, is AG going to continue to teach (regardless of agency) the same DIR/GUE principals and concepts he has been teaching for years. If the answer is yes, then by all means he will be teaching his students to be DIR. On the other hand, no one can say if his students are in fact "DIR", since this is a choice one makes on his/her own.

 

[boomx5]

It changes when said instructor was tossed out of GUE for not being DIR.

I can tell you right now that this is NOT the way it went down. Don't listen to the rhetoric that's being tossed around. Andrew is every bit as DIR as anybody else out there.

 

[lamont]

I think what is boils down to is, is AG going to continue to teach (regardless of agency) the same DIR/GUE principals and concepts he has been teaching for years. If the answer is yes, then by all means he will be teaching his students to be DIR. On the other hand, no one can say if his students are in fact "DIR", since this is a choice one makes on his/her own.

I'll bet you if you have someone who will be "Tech 1" certified by AG and holds no GUE certs that any GUE instructor will want them to complete DIRF. In that light calling them "DIR" may not have any utility at all.

I'm also quite certain that GI3 will disagree with you (loudly) that AG students aren't going to be DIR by *his* definition of DIR. Hop on gavinscooters and argue with him about the definition of DIR if you want to, I'm armed with popcorn...

If you're talking about a fluffier definition of DIR which boils down to "are they a good diver and would i dive with them?" then it probably depends on your opinions about AG and what your bar is for diving with other people and the dive in question.

 

[darkpup]

....... I think we're getting close to an answer here on DIR though......

42? or is that one already taken?

~ Jason

 

[mweitz]

186,000 Miles Per Second

 

[mweitz]

I'd be willing to bet that to take a Tech 1 from AG you have to have passed the GUE fundamentals and 25 dives past it.

He certainly isn't going to screw around with non fundies level divers in a tech situation I'm guessing, waste of his time, waste of their time.

Mark

I'll bet you if you have someone who will be "Tech 1" certified by AG and holds no GUE certs that any GUE instructor will want them to complete DIRF. In that light calling them "DIR" may not have any utility at all.

I'm also quite certain that GI3 will disagree with you (loudly) that AG students aren't going to be DIR by *his* definition of DIR. Hop on gavinscooters and argue with him about the definition of DIR if you want to, I'm armed with popcorn...

If you're talking about a fluffier definition of DIR which boils down to "are they a good diver and would i dive with them?" then it probably depends on your opinions about AG and what your bar is for diving with other people and the dive in question.