StSomewhere
Contributor
Because he markets a competing brand of scooters?jonnythan:
Seriously, there are apparently a *lot* of former GUE instructors given the statistical population size, maybe "office politics" has something to do with it?
Non GUE DIR
- Thread starter mweitz
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Seriously, there are apparently a *lot* of former GUE instructors given the statistical population size, maybe "office politics" has something to do with it?
MonkSeal
Contributor
Yes, I was talking about facts. It's not my opinion, it's a fact. My experience is fact, not opinion. Diference between opinion and experience is obvious. If I (as non-native English speaker) can see it then it's more then obvious to you.bridgediver:
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Seriously folks ... 250+ responses to a concern that a handful of instructors who, until recently, were seriously promoted by GUE as their finest are suddenly "not DIR" ... because ... why? Think about it ... do you really believe these guys suddenly forgot how to dive? Or how to teach?
Conversations like this one are the reason why the rest of the diving world looks at the whole GUE/DIR thing and shakes their head in wonderment. There's politics involved in this situation that would make a congressman blush ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Conversations like this one are the reason why the rest of the diving world looks at the whole GUE/DIR thing and shakes their head in wonderment. There's politics involved in this situation that would make a congressman blush ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
MonkSeal
Contributor
No Bob, you get it wrong. 250+ posts are here because it amuses us to discussNWGratefulDiver:
For me it's a good way of practicing my English Regarding politics, the situation is probably similar in any organization when key people leave it - the leadership must minimize their role and influence to minimize the damage.
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Exactly ... and it would benefit everyone to recognize it as such.MonkSeal:
That's my only dog in this hunt ... I like to recommend the benefits of DIR-F training to those of my students who are showing a passion for diving. I would like to believe I'm recommending to them a company with some integrity ... and that, to me, means being honest with people. If AG was fired due to conflicts of interest with his business partners, then that's really all that needs to be said.
All this "AG is not DIR" stuff, and "NAUI is diluting DIR" stuff is just nonsense ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
MonkSeal
Contributor
Totally agree with you. And one thing more that I'm sorry about is that AG canceled Tech-1 in Croatia planned for this summer.NWGratefulDiver:
OP
mweitz
Contributor
Well, this has been mighty amusing.
Lamont, just to be clear, I don't think the acronyms mean anything for the purposes of this discussion. They are just descriptors.
Scott, AG isn't "strict" DIR according to ... AG. He makes good arguments for his MINOR deviations to the system from what I can tell, and the things he pointed out to us certainly made sense. Since I've only been trained by West Coast DIR instructors it is hard to say for sure. At some point in the future I'll take some classes from those folks in Fl and maybe see things in a different light. You can be sure I'll compare and contrast the two teachings, including questioning things that seem better AG's way if that is the case.
It seems the general consensus is that GUE has done a good job of selecting and training instructors. It appears that if you choose a GUE instructor you are on a pretty good track, but that there are / may be other instructors that can give the same quality education. GUE as an agency seems to have gone through the trouble of finding and training the good ones though.
Now, the real issue I see is when the systems start to morph. NAUI allows you to expand on material, SSI allows instructors to create their own specialty courses. There is no reason some enterprising SSI instructor couldn't create a DIR specialty course and teach you how to use the gear, or pass on what is in the Fundies book in a quick Tues / Thurs evening class with a pair of checkout dives on the weekend, followed by Pizza at the local Pizza Joint (Pizza is a proper noun for those of you that didnt know).
Let's take 5thD-X, which includes AG, Joe T and Delia, out of the picture here for the moment, since they are all GUE trained instructors. Now, let's make up a company called "Undersea Explorations". It is made up of NAUI and SSI instructors. They have read Dans book and the Fundies book and are armed to teach DIR. They have (in their mind) the gear config down and a complete understanding of the system based on Jarrods book. Imagine the convolutions they could get. Imagine what their newly trained DIR diver would be like.
There are a lot of local groups for DIR divers. BAUE, NEUE, SDUE, .etc. These groups allow DIR folks to find other like minded folks to find dive buddies, do charters, exploration, etc. How are these groups going to handle non GUE trained divers? This discussion really isnt about AG. It isnt like Jason is going to take a Tech class with Joe or AG next year and all of a sudden we are both going to explode as soon as we touch the water together.
The fact of the matter is, if you are GUE trained, I know what to expect. If you are trained by another agency, I dont know what to expect since they dont have as rigid set of minimum standards. It is really the MINIMUM standards that we are talking about here, not that you can exceed them.
Mark
Lamont, just to be clear, I don't think the acronyms mean anything for the purposes of this discussion. They are just descriptors.
Scott, AG isn't "strict" DIR according to ... AG. He makes good arguments for his MINOR deviations to the system from what I can tell, and the things he pointed out to us certainly made sense. Since I've only been trained by West Coast DIR instructors it is hard to say for sure. At some point in the future I'll take some classes from those folks in Fl and maybe see things in a different light. You can be sure I'll compare and contrast the two teachings, including questioning things that seem better AG's way if that is the case.
It seems the general consensus is that GUE has done a good job of selecting and training instructors. It appears that if you choose a GUE instructor you are on a pretty good track, but that there are / may be other instructors that can give the same quality education. GUE as an agency seems to have gone through the trouble of finding and training the good ones though.
Now, the real issue I see is when the systems start to morph. NAUI allows you to expand on material, SSI allows instructors to create their own specialty courses. There is no reason some enterprising SSI instructor couldn't create a DIR specialty course and teach you how to use the gear, or pass on what is in the Fundies book in a quick Tues / Thurs evening class with a pair of checkout dives on the weekend, followed by Pizza at the local Pizza Joint (Pizza is a proper noun for those of you that didnt know).
Let's take 5thD-X, which includes AG, Joe T and Delia, out of the picture here for the moment, since they are all GUE trained instructors. Now, let's make up a company called "Undersea Explorations". It is made up of NAUI and SSI instructors. They have read Dans book and the Fundies book and are armed to teach DIR. They have (in their mind) the gear config down and a complete understanding of the system based on Jarrods book. Imagine the convolutions they could get. Imagine what their newly trained DIR diver would be like.
There are a lot of local groups for DIR divers. BAUE, NEUE, SDUE, .etc. These groups allow DIR folks to find other like minded folks to find dive buddies, do charters, exploration, etc. How are these groups going to handle non GUE trained divers? This discussion really isnt about AG. It isnt like Jason is going to take a Tech class with Joe or AG next year and all of a sudden we are both going to explode as soon as we touch the water together.
The fact of the matter is, if you are GUE trained, I know what to expect. If you are trained by another agency, I dont know what to expect since they dont have as rigid set of minimum standards. It is really the MINIMUM standards that we are talking about here, not that you can exceed them.
Mark
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I think Lamont is bang on.
Dump the DIR label an all ambiguity goes away....as does the need for this discussion.
Dump the DIR label an all ambiguity goes away....as does the need for this discussion.
OP
mweitz
Contributor
I'm not sure I follow you here. GUE should drop the DIR name or the DIR name should be dropped alltogether? There is no relevance to the name. You can call the system "Fred" if you want.
Keep in mind that this discussion is really for GUE trained folks or folks that have intimate knowledge of GUE training. If you aren't then it is difficult to understand the scope of the discussion.
Mark
Keep in mind that this discussion is really for GUE trained folks or folks that have intimate knowledge of GUE training. If you aren't then it is difficult to understand the scope of the discussion.
Mark
Stephen Ash:
jumsted65
Contributor
If DIR is to GUE as Coke is to Cola, then are we all not Coke *****s?darkpup:
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