My LDS actually requires me to provide at least a pic of my buddy's c-card if I'm renting gear for someone they don't know. I honestly don't mind it, I'd rather work with a shop that is safety and liability minded.
Non-certified diver fatality - Arkansas
- Thread starter DandyDon
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
This should be less about how/when/where the gear was obtained, but rather what a "certified" diver was thinking, leading an untrained diver on a deep dive in cold, low vis water. 
AfterDark
Contributor
This should be less about how/when/where the gear was obtained, but rather what a "certified" diver was thinking, leading an untrained diver on a deep dive in cold, low vis water.
I think I touched on that in post 9 I think somebody didn't want to dive alone,...... Or maybe his friend bugged him so much to try it he gave in.
Or maybe his friend was a moron or a murder? What do you think?
We never ask to see a certification card when people to come in to buy gear. I wouldn't expect to be hassled if I went and bought a parachute. I'm not a skydiver either...
This is another sensless loss of life that could have easily been prevented. I hope we find out the truth of what happened, but I doubt it will ever make sense based on their decision making ability.
AfterDark
Contributor
Agree, however rentals and air fills I think should be different if only for the liability. I'm not a dive shop owner but I'd think as one I'd feel like crap if I enabled some knuckle head to his death by not asking a simple question. I wonder if the pilot of the plane would ask for a cert if you wanted to jump out of his plane with your new gear ?
Wookie
Proud to be a Chaos Muppet
Staff member
ScubaBoard Business Sponsor
ScubaBoard Supporter
Scuba Instructor
Would you ask to see a c-card if you rented gear? Cause there is no paperwork to sell gear, but usually you want something filled out just so they bring it back. If you rented an airplane and a parachute, would you expect to show your jump log?
Yes to both of those questions. When renting gear we require a c-card which we also make a copy of and staple to the rental form. My post was about people buying gear, not renting gear.
If I rented a plane and wanted to jump out, yes, I would expect the operation to prove I was certified. That has nothing to do with gear purchases though.
Ken Kurtis
Contributor
. . . but rather what a "certified" diver was thinking, leading an untrained diver on a deep dive in cold, low vis water.
PURE SPECULATION AND OPINION STARTS NOW:
For those of us who have been teaching a while (I've been teaching since 1978), we generally look on with dismay as courses become shorter, cover less, standards are relaxed, things we used to teach routinely are eliminated because they're too "dangerous," etc., etc.
This dumbing-down of the overall level of instruction that divers now get does NOT make them feel that they've necessarily acheived something momentous when they get their certification card but it's more like they've checked off enough things on the cert aganecy list to get the card, much as I check off things on my list when I go food shopping and that's how I know I'm done.
Additionally, back in "the day" (and I had this conversation with some folks, many of whom are longtime instructors, on our boat this past weekend), those of us getting certified year sago likely had a much greater desire to dive and a much greater commitment to do so once we earned (I chose that word deliberately) our c-card. And there were fewer other recreational choices back then. Today, scuba diving is simply one more thing on the bucket list along with parachuting, skateboarding, rock-clbiming, windsurfing, kayaking, and a host of other things that compete for our time. The psychological buy-in of many divers today is propbably much different than it used to be.
This is not meant to be a lament about the "good old days" but is intended to set up the heart of my comment. If you accept my premise as I just laid it out . . .
It's not hard from that mindset to see how people think diving is easy, that anyone can do it with minimal or no instruction, and that the risks are few and far between. I mean, that's pretty much the way it's pitched by the agencies nowadays and the way it's marketed by many stores. (We've all probably seen "ANYONE CAN LEARN TO DIVE" signs.) And before anyone pooh-poohs this perspective, bear in mind that nowadays with on-line training, as an industry, we are endorsing the concept of self-instruction. It's a small step to go from self-taught bookwork to jump-in-with-me-and-it'll-fine diving. And besides, what are the odds of dying on ONE dive?
So, not meaning to castigate Vickers, but I think it's entirely reasonable to think that someone thought it would be OK for the uncertified diver to go in, either rented or loaned the gear to the victim, and we now all know the - not unexpected - outcome. And for all we know, they/he had done this before without incident so what are the odds for a bad outcome this time?
They see it as we-did-it-before-and-nothing-bad-happened. We see it as Russian Roulette and this time, there was a bullet in the chamber when the trigger was pulled.
- Ken
Skittl1321
Contributor
- Messages
- 1,756
- Reaction score
- 660
- # of dives
- 25 - 49
Our dive shop told us he'll sell you anything you want. But if you want to rent it, he needs to know you are certified.
I do wonder if any charges will be brought up against the certified diver. Even if he didn't -kill- the guy: it seems like the 'training' he received through certification would make him somewhat responsible for the other person. What the hell was he thinking taking someone not certified to 70+ feet? I mean, I think taking someone down to 30 feet is also a bad idea, but I can kind of see how some people would justify that as 'safe'; but 70 feet? I'm so sad for this man and his family.
Similar threads
