No truer words have ever been typed!

[Teamcasa]

The OP seems to be reacting to what he perceives as browbeating or arrogance on the part of people giving advice here.

I'll admit that there is the occasional over-the-top post of, "If you dive with a Spare Air, you are going to die!" But, for the most part, people argue fairly cogently for their viewpoints, and often with significant passion. Sometimes, it seems necessary to be heated or emphatic, when someone is proposing doing something which appears to be particularly dangerous. And some of us have some very strong opinions about how people ought to be educated, or what they ought to know or be able to do, to enter certain diving situations.

Overall, my guess is that that kind of passion and dedication to spreading information and to helping (people spend AMAZING amounts of time sharing their knowledge here) has done far more good than harm to the large, silent readership of this board. My guess is that a lot of people got their first introduction to the concept of gas management and redundancy here; got reminded that they should practice emergency procedures; got introduced to various ways of configuring gear; got some input as to what a quality class should be, and what to ask an instructor . . . All of these things are spread over this board daily, and by people with passion AND strong opinions, who aren't always as diplomatic as they might be in conveying those.

We can all be jolly and go diving together, certainly; but surely Scubaboard can serve a higher purpose than that?

You are close. It was your post that I originally reacted to.

Originally Posted by TSandM
Quotation from John Cronin's essay on the beginning of PADI, in The Encyclopedia of Recreational Diving, p 1-53 ... "The reason divers then were such purists is that they put up with so much BS to get there. ":

I have been guilty of the dispensing of arrogant advice and bragging needlessly to make some stupid point.
I lost sight of why most of us dive and the inevitable questions divers have, but (some) are afraid to ask for fear of the ridicule. When I see the wonderment in my lovely bride's eyes, her mask leaking because she can’t stop smiling, and natures beauty below it now makes me regret the wasted dives. I never want to take this sport for granted and I don’t want to be responsible for diminishing the passion in any new diver.

The second part is that I will try very hard to dispense any advice without condemnation or contempt. If I can’t help without slamming someone, I’ll just skip that post. ScubaBoard can and does serve a higher purpose, it can be a solid, competent source of information. I just hope the newest divers here can separate the wheat from the chaff.

Dave

 

[boat sju]

I can't find the user group for Team Dork. Where can I join?

 

[merxlin]

If you read through the posts on this thread, there is a great amount of debate, all with a varying degree of passion. And it has been carried out in a very impressive fashion. The thread has evolved into a very deep philosophical discussion. And the amazing thing is that this thread is only about opinion, versus so many that have to do with gear and technique, where there is a considerable amount of hard data to use in an opinion. The underlying difference between this thread and so many others is actually something Ken said in his post-

Take another swing at it. But don't wilt, don't come in soft, and don't make it personal. Sell it, defend it, make me think you've put some thought into your take. Even if I think you're all wet, if you've thought it through I'll respect you.

Unfortunately, once a good passionate argument has been presented and the person or persons of an opposing opinion have no more thought or fact to put forth, it usually turns personal. And the posts start degrading from there. For me it is usually out of frustration that my well thought out presentation of facts and logic are not so much being disagreed with, as ignored and I am the subject of personal afronts. Then it is only about passion. Reason, wit and logic be damned!

 

[Bullswan]

I can't find the user group for Team Dork. Where can I join?

I would like to join as well but I have to be honest .............

I am going to be terrified to learn what the secret handshake is going to entail.

 

[Mo2vation]

If you read through the posts on this thread, there is a great amount of debate, all with a varying degree of passion. And it has been carried out in a very impressive fashion. The thread has evolved into a very deep philosophical discussion. And the amazing thing is that this thread is only about opinion, versus so many that have to do with gear and technique, where there is a considerable amount of hard data to use in an opinion. The underlying difference between this thread and so many others is actually something Ken said in his post-



Unfortunately, once a good passionate argument has been presented and the person or persons of an opposing opinion have no more thought or fact to put forth, it usually turns personal. And the posts start degrading from there. For me it is usually out of frustration that my well thought out presentation of facts and logic are not so much being disagreed with, as ignored and I am the subject of personal afronts. Then it is only about passion. Reason, wit and logic be damned!

The deal is this: you don't know me, so you can't hurt me. Get as personal against me as you want. This is not the real life, it is the internet (thanks again, Mania.) You can get personal and lob scuds about my bad hair or my funny faces - but if that's all you got, its weak.

Likewise, if I'm out of ammo, and all I got left is the rocks with your mother's picture on them (in her army boots, of course) I deserve to get skewered.

People make personal attacks against others because of their own insecurities. People make personal jokes on themselves because they are secure in who they are.

I can and do skewer myself enough for both of us, thank you very much. If you got nothing else and are forced to skewer me and not my take or the topic I've presented, you're limp - and we'll all laugh at you and you'll look like a dork.

I am, and I claim to be an expert on nothing except me. I present my personal experiences, foibles, victories, challenges and break throughs. I don't pass on stuff I hear as my own, I don't rubber stamp anything I haven't tried as my own. When I'm presenting something passionately and confidently, its because I believe in it, have vetted it and can stand behind it. This is why I can present my opinions on some subjects so strongly and confidently, and steer way clear of many other subjects.

---
Ken

 

[diverdowndh]

Talk about feeling like you know it all... i decided to work on my dm and took the AOW course I should've taken years ago... oh my gosh, let me quote from the wreck diver knowledge review... "Should you have an air supply problem or other emergency, you MUST exit the wreck before you can ascend" DUH!
Some of the things like this that I'm reading are making me laugh and/or ridicule this whole AOW program. I know, it is supposed to be taken sooner than this dork did but man, some of the things they say in this are complete BS as teamcasa says.... I certainly hope I don't turn into one of those purists! Purists? We don't need no stinking purists! Ha!

 

[Thalassamania]

I am, and I claim to be an expert on nothing except me. I present my personal experiences, foibles, victories, challenges and break throughs. I don't pass on stuff I hear as my own, I don't rubber stamp anything I haven't tried as my own. When I'm presenting something passionately and confidently, its because I believe in it, have vetted it and can stand behind it. This is why I can present my opinions on some subjects so strongly and confidently, and steer way clear of many other subjects.

---
Ken

I'm really a fan now.

 

[MaconBubbles]

PerroneFord [is not] not tempted to slip into the “I’m a better diver so listen up you numbskull.” mode when dispensing their opinions. I thank them for that.

Awfully easy when you're as bad a diver as me! Honestly, I'm just happy to be able to speak to and learn from so many divers around the world.

This stuff still fascinates me.

Yep...gotta love this attitude...gives you a reason for sticking around this forum.

 

[Divin' Dave]

This is one of the more enjoyable and articulate threads I've encountered. Thank you all. I'm impressed.
As for my dorkness, having been a poor diver and learning from some who may carry a touch of zealotry, I'm busy trying to learn new ways to make myself a better, safer and therefore having more fun diver. In time I may look more DIR because I'm impressed by the skills and safety of the DIR divers I'm with. I suppose that if my experience took me in other directions and those folks were safer and better I would emulate them as well. But as an OW diver, never to be in an overhead situation, I have no need or interest in some of the finer points of DIR diving.
Diving is fun and a unique experience. There is pleasure and passion to be found in this sport aplenty and new understandings of our place in the world. The sport has a macro and micro quality to it that I've never experienced before. Dr Bill, Ken, Dave and Mike are great folk to know and dive with. I hope there are many, many more years to enjoy and grow as a diver while sharing diving with these people.
And I really do want my Team Dork t-shirt as soon as they can be made available.

 

[MaconBubbles]

I'm all for the Team Dork T-shirt as well. Now, we'll really have to get one designed. It could be a picture of me when I tried on my first wet suit. I came out of the dressing room and noticed all heads were turned in my direction and I was wondering why everyone was staring at me. Then the sales rep came running over and whispered, "The zipper goes in the back."

Yep...sign me up. :geek: