No solo diving in overhead environment

[Foxfish]

Thanks people. Seems to me that the sentiment here is that if you have done the requisite penetration and solo diving training then diving in an open cavern such as the one shown in the photo is considered okay by diving agency standards.

In the OP I'm simply noting that the SDI course book seems to absolutely preclude so diving in this kind of environment regardless of training in penetration diving. I don't think anyone here is endorsing that position.

Am I reading people correctly here?

 

[tstormdiver]

I never said it was/ was not agency standard, only my opinion. You have to remember that the agencies must carefully write what they publish to shield themselves from liability. You know.... CYA. I am both a cave diver & a solo instructor. Yes, SDI does say that one should not dive in overhead environments solo. But also keep in mind that the SDI solo course is only a quasi- tech course & geared more to recreational OW divers, not well trained & seasoned technical divers.

 

[ianr33]

I do not have a solo certification.

I have done solo cave dives. Is that wrong?

 

[Foxfish]

To me it's because cavern is somewhat of a misnomer. How fast can the light zone disappear? Silt kicked up by the diver or others, flow changes and diver ends up deeper in than planned, catastrophic gas loss results in diver with single tank not having enough air to get to the opening, or out of the blue diver loses ballast and ends up pinned to the ceiling. Somewhat farfetched sure, but on the surface any accident seems that way. There is in reality no reason for you to stay out if you don't want to stay out. Just make sure that you and your family understand that if something does go wrong there is no need for anyone to recover you and put themselves at risk. Solo training is not overhead training. It still assumes you can make a direct ascent to the surface if the SHTF. Overhead training teaches you to deal with when you can't.
I am doing a presentation in march that I'm now developing that deals with some of the misconceptions about so called safe overheads like caverns and swim thru's. It is based on my own values and ethics as well as training and experience, but in essence it boils down to that these "safe" overheads are just an accident waiting to happen for those who don't want to play by the rules or are outright lied to about how dangerous they can be. The latter are those people who were led into these places by people who "do it all the time" and ended up dying as a result.
You do what you want. No one to stop you. That's the beauty of this. Plenty of ways to get killed or hurt all on your own. But again just don't expect anyone to bring back your corpse.
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I've been diving these swim throughs and caverns for about the past ten years both as a freediver and scuba diver. I regularly enter these caverns with a buddy while scuba diving. I've never heard of any divers having visibility problems and have rarely experienced this myself.

Dive charters will typically require trainee open water divers don't enter the caverns during their courses. I did on my advanced open water, but then I'd been doing it for years while freediving.

So you'll understand that the idea that it is too risky to dive these caverns solo - period - is a bit hard to swallow.

I've done a little reading on the inherent risks associated with diving these caverns since posting this thread. I think most of them are identified in this thread.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ba...d-environments-open-water-scuba-divers-8.html

The biggest worry is getting lost and not being able to find your way out. I won't say that could never happen but you'd have to work pretty hard for that to happen in our caverns. The sand settles out quickly.

I've noted a few areas where I need to be a little more careful like squeezing through constricted passages but that applies to buddy diving and solo diving.

I'm looking for other specialty courses and overhead might be a good one. I've done a little diving in a wreck not far off the coast that is in a particularly silty area. Frankly it is not something that greatly interests me. Following a buddy into the lower portions of the wreck as his fins silted up the area made me think that this could quickly become uncomfortable. When he motioned to again enter the area after we'd been through and entered a higher more open level I politely declined.

Given my distribution of weighting, getting pinned to the wall of a cavern is probably impossible. Which reminds me, I need to check that ditching my weight belt will actually result in me being buoyant - we digress.

I spoke with a diver a few weeks back who likes to chase crayfish (lobster). He was saying how he was in a tight passage a few weeks back and found his regulator got stuck so that for a while he was contemplating cutting it off so that he could get out. He reassured me he'd done some advanced diving course, the name of which escapes me. He was diving solo and had no pony bottle. I suggested he should use one.

He said another time he got a little annoyed because he was up one of his favourite passages chasing crayfish with only his fins protruding. Some trainee divers swam by and tried to 'rescue' him by pulling him out of the passage.

I accept this is stretching the limits of safe solo diving in an overhead environment.

Anyway, I'll be interested to read your article so please give us a heads up when it is finished.

 

[Wookie]

I do not have a solo certification.

I have done solo cave dives. Is that wrong?

You dive in that dastardly deadly pit. It's so wrong.

When my wife was certified as a cave diver, her final lesson was to plan a solo cave dive. Her instructor is still a prolific Mexican cave instructor, and that was his final impression on his students. He taught that whether or not you have buddies, or a team or other divers diving in the same cave, on the same day, in the same vicinity as you, you are really your only reliable hope of getting out alive. This instructor was not a WKPP member, nor does he DIR. His parting shot was that actually doing a solo cave dive was a parsonal choice for the diver, but everyone should plan as though they didn't have any backup available.

I wouldn't cave dive on a bet.

The way you plan your dives is your decision and choice. Make one you can live with, and be sure to plan for the consequences of your planning. Have a good life insurance policy to take care of your loved ones, regardless of the type of diving you do.

 

[Foxfish]

I never said it was/ was not agency standard, only my opinion. You have to remember that the agencies must carefully write what they publish to shield themselves from liability. You know.... CYA. I am both a cave diver & a solo instructor. Yes, SDI does say that one should not dive in overhead environments solo. But also keep in mind that the SDI solo course is only a quasi- tech course & geared more to recreational OW divers, not well trained & seasoned technical divers.

Roger that. I'm not a well trained or seasoned tech diver so I probably don't qualify. Frankly at present I see no good reason to stop diving in 'caverns' as a solo diver in much the same way that I presently do as a buddy.

 

[waterpirate]

The definition of overhead is blured. Maybe an official splurb from the cavern course would help. To me a swim through, or prepared wreck with cut outs to the light zone, are not really overheads. Devon had that wheel house video, awhile back to show the silt danger. In the end it is a informed decision made by you, with the correct education and information to support your choice.
Eric

 

[Foxfish]

I do not have a solo certification.

I have done solo cave dives. Is that wrong?

Or should that be is it 'safe'. Some divers disdain formal training. Others on the forum refuse to do any thing not sanctioned by their training.

Some insist I must prepare a dive plan with the route and depth of any dive plan I do. I don't do it when buddy diving off our charter boat and won't with solo diving. It is simply not practicable in this context.

I've seen enough hubris on Scubaboard to convince me that doing diver training courses is essential. Some more than others. There needs to be more effort to explain and justify the need for the courses.

 

[DevonDiver]

Some divers disdain formal training

We had a nice example of that in the A&I forum on Christmas Day.

Others on the forum refuse to do any thing not sanctioned by their training.

I think many people see this as some sort of zealot attitude towards 'licenses' and 'sanctioning'. I won't speak for others, but I don't see that. What I see is that those divers who have undertaken the training see the value in the training. They see the dangers of inadequate or omitted training. Those who haven't done the training, unsurprisingly, occasionally fail to see how it will benefit their safety.

That's not enormously surprising. Much of the 'early stages' of diving education is overly simplistic and of questionable value. We all know the 'put another dollar in' jokes. As people progress through training levels some become cynical. They see little value in the training they've received beyond entry-level. They make a leap in logic and assume that future training, such as solo, cavern, cave, wreck and tech, will provide equally little true value. This is especially true when that divers' experience begins to exceed their training level.

I'd hazard against such cynicism with regards overhead environments. Those that teach it are generally within the higher echelon of instructors. The courses themselves are generally very beneficial and offer new insights and challenges - to even the most card-weary diving student.

In short - it isn't about the 'c-card' or getting 'permission'.... it's about having the skills, knowledge, experience, equipment, attitude and assessment needed to ensure safety in specialized, higher risk, diving environments.

The last factor - assessment - is particularly pertinent. Ego makes a fool of competency self-assessment. A training course offers the opportunity for an unbiased opinion on your strengths, weaknesses and capabilities by an expert in that field. It's worth it's weight in gold....

 

[tstormdiver]

When it comes down to it, how much risk will you mitigate (through training, planning & such....) & how much risk are you willing to take on?