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DandyDon:
Done via SB is enough to report directly to Pete/NetDoc, and while it'd be best if the offended person did the report, I appreciate your concern. Sometimes second hand info is useful.


well, in this case, she tried as much as she could with the powers that be. and has completely washed her hands of SB.

I on the otherhand haven't gotten there yet. Being that SB is my main way of contacting the people I dive with in the area, and there are several people I do enjoy talking to here, and that most of the few run ins with staff that I have had were at the very least partially my own doing.

This most recent incident had her looking up internet harassment laws, and wanting NetDoc's email address.

Of course, all of this might just be making the person who is doing the harassing smile at the trouble being caused. But, I have sat by long enough.

The original falling out happened almost a year ago. Gidds at that point ended contact, and made it clear that she wanted none. Why the other person insists on trying to continue this crud, almost a year later, is beyond me.
 
photohikedive:
Ok, so I report a post with the hopes of a timely response. So, the only MOD available was one on his way to bed? Were there no other MODs available to look into the situation? He had time to reply to me that it would be looked into.
An accusation was made that the post in question was "harassment". When you read this post, there was no name calling, no innuendo, no criticisms, no threats and literally NOTHING that could be construed as harassment using the standard dictionary definition. From www.Dictionary.com:

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2">harassment</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2">noun </td></tr><tr><td valign="top">1. </td><td valign="top">a feeling of intense annoyance caused by being tormented; "so great was his harassment that he wanted to destroy his tormentors" </td></tr><tr><td valign="top">2. </td><td valign="top">the act of tormenting by continued persistent attacks and criticism </td></tr></tbody></table>
You have made an ASSUMPTION that the intent was to harass, and frankly we investigate when ever there are serious accusations such as this. So we asked the poster what their intent was in making that post, and amazingly harassment was not one of the reasons given. In fact when this was given as a possible motivation, there was obvious shock in the following PM. Investigation such as this always takes time. If the alleged harassment was egregious and involved an attack, criticism or threat, it would have been handled much, much differently. Since this was a gray area at best, it's no wonder why the mod took his time to come to a correct decision the first time.

There are many relationships here on ScubaBoard. For the most part they are fun and center around diving. Some take on a different tenor and either become more intimate as in a "best friend" or a "SO", and some go the other way as one or the other begins to dislike their former friend for reasons real, imagined or a combination of the two. When the former happens, we rejoice and when the latter happens we are saddened. Unfortunately, quite often after such a split when they read a simple request (such as this was) they assume the worst and cry "FOUL!"

Sometimes they cry "FOUL!" a lot even when no foul has been committed. Now frankly, a mod's job is to keep this as friendly a place as possible and still keep it relevant. They excel at this! Their job really does not include relationship counseling, though we seem to do a lot of it anyway. Expecting this VOLUNTEER to drop everything and deal with this particular relationship problem as you saw fit, is somewhat unreasonable. Assigning a negative motive to a mod trying their best to do you a service is also unreasonable and who could blame Rick for infusing a bit of humor to show how unreasonable you were being. Kudos to Rick for apologizing when you took exception to his humor. Have you apologized to the Mod you wrongly accused yet?

ScubaBoard is a WONDERFUL resource and it's a shame when someone cuts them self off from it. Like any large community (we are bigger than many towns, you know) there are going to be people you like and dislike. I don't know that I would leave a city just because I don't like the guy down the road. Rather, I learn to ignore him. Asking the Sheriff to intervene when someone you don't like asks you to come out and play is not the best way to use the system. Now you can expect the Sheriff AND his posse to come out if they start a public brawl or issues a threat and so it is here on ScubaBoard. But we don't have the manpower, desire or authority to police relationships. I certainly HOPE this helps you understand what you can expect from our most excellent Mod Squad and also perhaps to understand what you should not expect.
 
Ok, Pete, I have outlined the situation via email, and to no avail. Maybe if I put it up where some objective observers can read it, it might help. I will leave the other party's name out, so you shouldn't be able to claim a TOS violation.

***** and Gidds for whatever reason, have a falling out.

Gidds discontinues contact with *****.

***** continues to attempt to contact Gidds.

*****, with MOD powers, can't be ignored.

Gidds, does not respond to ***** instead she goes to the MODs.

MODs say there is no TOS violation.

Every time the unwelcome contact is made Gidds, instead of responding, reports the post.

Eventually she is told to stop, since she is bothering the MODs (how this bothers the MODs but isn't supposed to bother Gidds is beyond me.)

Gidds quits ScubaBoard.

***** continues to try to contact Gidds through other members, including myself.

Gidds and I ignore it.

***** involves a friend of ours, by giving him a package to deliver. He insists he has to give it to us, we refuse, haven't spoken with this man since.

At this point I take it to the MODs, and am told that there was never a violation, that I am now the problem.

I show the TOS, I attempt to point out how the continuous contact attempts is harassment. Again, told there was no problem, but that now ***** no longer has MOD powers, and I should leave it be.

I agree, and left it alone.

Then ***** starts a "birthday thread" and in it, says that ******'s only wish was to speak to Gidds again, and to dive with sharks" Well, funny thing is, ****** has ALL of our contact info. Email addresses, phone numbers, post office address. Heck, being Gidd's best friend from up north, he even has a key to her storage facility in RI. But, HE has not spoken with Gidds in months. I have emailed him, and tried to contact him via MySpace. But he has yet to contact us back. So, why say that his wish is contact?

People start reading the thread, and asking about it. Trying to get to Gidds for ***** and ******. I had ***** on ignore until this stuff started. I report the post to (MOD), and he PMs me that he is looking into it. When time passes, and contact continues. I contact (MOD) again, and am told that he had to ask ***** about why she posted that. And that he was tired and had to sleep.

Now, knowing that this is an ongoing problem, couldn't he edit the post, then go back, and if it turned out to be unwarranted, correct it. Instead of letting it stand and do it's work. Or, as I have seen done before, pass it on to another MOD.



So, you ask this person if the intent was to harass, and OH MY GOD! They said no? Really? Please, this is amazing. So, by this logic they should empty the prisons, I am sure if you asked the inmates, they would say they were innocent.

So, lets see, by your deffinition, and conviniently you picked one that needed the harasser to do it in an obvious and blatant manner. I guess that harassment could never be done in a stealthy or secret way.

If I was to get your phone number, and was to call you repeatedly, and all I said was good morning. You tell me to stop, and I continue to call..... would that not be harassment?

Well, here we have a case where one person continually attempts to contact another. The second person does not want the contact and made that clear. Yet the contact attempts were continued. The second person did thier best to avoid the contact, and when unable to via the conventional means, went to the "authorities". Who STILL continue to say this isn't harassment, while the contact is STILL being attempted. Nearly a year later.

Using the link you provided to www.Dictionary.com: and entering the word Harassment I got...

1. to disturb persistently; torment, as with troubles or cares; bother continually; pester; persecute.
2. to trouble by repeated attacks, incursions, etc., as in war or hostilities; harry; raid.

I would say, that a year after ending contact, the persistant disturbance caused by this continued attempted contact would most certainly fall under the deffinition of harassment.

But no, you continue to make this like it is somehow our fault, and that the only problem is us. Gidds has done EVERYTHING to avoid this person. Has gone to you people when the problem started. For some reason you insist on blaming us.

When there is this clear cut case of harassment, you make it like we are bothering your MODs by reporting it. That the "favor" was done to even take the time to look into a reported post.

I understand that the person might be a friend of yours. But really Pete, you have taken on a responsiblity to the users of SB as a whole. And while it is tough to believe that a friend would do such a thing, the evidence is right there. No matter how tight you sqeeze your eyes.
 
NetDoc:
Sometimes they cry "FOUL!" a lot even when no foul has been committed. Now frankly, a mod's job is to keep this as friendly a place as possible and still keep it relevant. They excel at this! Their job really does not include relationship counseling, though we seem to do a lot of it anyway. Expecting this VOLUNTEER to drop everything and deal with this particular relationship problem as you saw fit, is somewhat unreasonable. Assigning a negative motive to a mod trying their best to do you a service is also unreasonable and who could blame Rick for infusing a bit of humor to show how unreasonable you were being. Kudos to Rick for apologizing when you took exception to his humor. Have you apologized to the Mod you wrongly accused yet?


This is the part that kills me. There is no request for relationship counceling. Gidds acted in a mature and responsible fashion. She ended contact. That's all she wanted. Yet the person persisted. She turned to you when the ignore feature wasn't an option. All she wanted was the attempted contact to stop. You would not do this, she quit using SB. The person STILL continues to attempt contact, by trying to get other SB members to do it for them. When I ask for this to be stemmed by editing the post so less people would see the remark. It was left to stand for 12 hours.

Now, as far as Rick. He looked into it. Even he said it was an unsually long time for a report to be addressed.

Rick Inman:
You're right, I wasn't aware of this particular post. I just looked at it. It was reported by you at 10:30am, and edited at 10:30pm. Twelve hours does seem like a long time. And I can't speak for the mod who claimed it and what was going on that day that caused it to take so long.

If it helps, I will PM you my personal email address, and you may pm and email me any time you feel you need an immediate response. I won't always be able to drop whatever I'm doing, but I'll try (unless I'm underwater! :D ).

Of course. As you would for me, too.


Yet you overlook this. Rick, didn't know how serious the problem is. I forgive him for that. Now, the MOD in question DOES know that this problem has been going on for quite some time. Yet he still left it for 12 hours. All that had to be done, was to remove Gidds's name. I didn't expect the person to be punished, or banned, or anything like that. Just remove Gidds's name.

This, you seem to think is an unreasonable request.
 
:popcorn: :coffee: :popcorn:

wowza....I do not need to watch my stories no more. I got SB!!
 
photohikedive:
Why the other person insists on trying to continue this crud, almost a year later, is beyond me.

If someone sends the person a blow-up doll or sheep, will that do the trick with leaving so-and-so alone?


by the way. i got like over 200 posts removed. It happens.



(partly because of the ^you^ posts, but who is keeping track these days)
 
AXL72:
:popcorn: :coffee: :popcorn:

wowza....I do not need to watch my stories no more. I got SB!!


Tell me about it. I just want to come here and meet people to dive with. I get the added benefit of being able to talk and joke with friends. Unfortunately some people wont let things go. Even more unfortunate, when the staff decides that the person trying to avoid the problem, IS the problem.
 
AXL72:
If someone sends the person a blow-up doll or sheep, will that do the trick with leaving so-and-so alone?


by the way. i got like over 200 posts removed. It happens.



(partly because of the ^you^ posts, but who is keeping track these days)


We're not sure what to do. She told the person to leave her alone. She stopped talking to them. She left SB, and that still isn't enough.

It's like a rape victim joining a convent, gets raped again, and the law says it was her fault.
 
photohikedive:
We're not sure what to do. She told the person to leave her alone. She stopped talking to them. She left SB, and that still isn't enough.

It's like a rape victim joining a convent, gets raped again, and the law says it was her fault.


hey, before I get permanently banned for sticking my nose where it don't belong, are you thinking of starting a poll on this? to make it official the views of the many?

**prepares for permanent ban**
 
I am not doing this for shock value, or to stir the pot.

A poll would be counter productive. I have tried in private to have this handled. You can see how the replies are here in public.

Unfortunately, doing things by the rules, doesn't matter, when the ones who make the rules decide you are going to be wrong, no matter what.
 
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