No air at 40' at night

[Mike]

If you will notice, the sentence of my post that was bolded says he should go to his buddy for gas, IF HE NEEDED GAS. In this case, he didn't, but he didn't know it. As I said earlier, one of the takeaways for me from this story is that it may be useful to take our students through a quick differential diagnosis of regulator problems, and what to do or try in the event that they occur. A wet reg should immediately prompt a switch to the backup reg; there really aren't any failures that are going to deliver water to both second stages. A reg which suddenly stops delivering gas is much more likely to be a first stage problem, or a dip tube problem (or an out-of-gas problem) where switching to the backup reg is unlikely to solve the problem. However, while one is moving toward one's buddy, assuming said buddy was not immediately at hand, trying the backup reg is not a bad interim move.

Personally, I would much rather have a person who is having trouble securing a source of breathable gas go, at least temporarily, to his buddy, than persist in ineffective attempts at self-rescue until the problem becomes truly unmanageably urgent. Once a diver is on his buddy's backup, he has a whole LOT of time to inspect his equipment and try various options, at leisure and calmly. While he is in the water without a source of breathing gas, time is very severely limited, and his thinking is unlikely to be methodical.

Totally agree with you. If your primary fails, you go to your back up reg, if that fails you go to your buddy's air. However with a diver with so few dives, combined with being over his head being on a night dive, sucking in water on his reg, only a super cool as a cucumber inexperienced diver is probably going to think to go to back up reg first. At least he survived it with no injuries and his wife survived being abandoned. Alls well then ends well and hopefully he got a dose of reality and will slow down and start thinking about dive safety more now. We've all made mistakes and the wealth of experience on scubaboard can help any diver become a safer and better diver if you seek it out which he seems to be doing.

 

[John_B]

Actually you probably understood me just fine.

A new diver with no air, and a mouthful of water needs to be on the surface if there's no way to immediately fix the problem underwater.

If the diver feels confident, a swimming ascent with or without ditching weights at the surface would be fine, but if there's any question about being able to safely arrive at the surface and stay there, ditching weights at depth will have a much more certain outcome.

Weight ditching at depth in an emergency is only dangerous if not done properly. As someone mentioned earlier, "bent on the surface is better than dead on the bottom". I'll take a chamber ride over a funeral any day of the week.

Not directed at the OP, but just a hypothetical question: What if a newish diver that forgot how to find their octo also forgot to breathe out on their rocket ride to the surface and got an embolism in the bargain?

 

[chrpai]

Not directed at the OP, but just a hypothetical question: What if a newish diver that forgot how to find their octo also forgot to breathe out on their rocket ride to the surface and got an embolism in the bargain?

It's pretty clear to me that flots am was talking about DCS not DCI. Drowning by water and drowning by blood both suck. I assume by "newish" you mean certfied and not comletely new. What would happen is they could be dead and Scubaboard would have enough material for months to pick it apart. Personally, I believe that if a diver doesn't know 5 ways of dealing with this problem then they shouldn't be diving.

 

[DandyDon]

Actually you probably understood me just fine.

A new diver with no air, and a mouthful of water needs to be on the surface if there's no way to immediately fix the problem underwater.

If the diver feels confident, a swimming ascent with or without ditching weights at the surface would be fine, but if there's any question about being able to safely arrive at the surface and stay there, ditching weights at depth will have a much more certain outcome.

Weight ditching at depth in an emergency is only dangerous if not done properly. As someone mentioned earlier, "bent on the surface is better than dead on the bottom". I'll take a chamber ride over a funeral any day of the week.

flots.

If the diver is choking on that mouth full of water, he may try to hold his breath on that rapid ascent....

1: Find your other reg;

2: Find your buddy's reg;

3: Or get to the surface if you have to, but make sure your airway is open - CESA or Buoyant Ascent.
​

Not directed at the OP, but just a hypothetical question: What if a newish diver that forgot how to find their octo also forgot to breathe out on their rocket ride to the surface and got an embolism in the bargain?

I guess he'd still have a chance better than drowning, but to be avoided!

 

[flots am]

Not directed at the OP, but just a hypothetical question: What if a newish diver that forgot how to find their octo also forgot to breathe out on their rocket ride to the surface and got an embolism in the bargain?

If the diver doesn't have a buddy, doesn't know how to use/find an alternate air source, and doesn't keep an open airway on the way to the surface, there will very soon be a dead diver.

Ditching weights at depth is a last-ditch effort to remain alive when your brain has turned to mush and nothing else is working, however it's not a miracle. It's still possible to die if you work at it.

flots.

 

[CT-Rich]

If the diver doesn't have a buddy, doesn't know how to use/find an alternate air source, and doesn't keep an open airway on the way to the surface, there will very soon be a dead diver.

Ditching weights at depth is a last-ditch effort to remain alive when your brain has turned to mush and nothing else is working, however it's not a miracle. It's still possible to die if you work at it.

flots.

I agree about that. If you are not in control enough to find your octo, what makes you think you going to be competent to do a CESA? I consider dumping weights a last ditch move to survive. Remember you may rise right into the pitching hull of your dive boat. and if the embolish and drowning don't kill you, that will make short work of what ever is left of you... If you hit an anchor line or a some other obstruction, you will be too boyant to do anything useful, except admire how sh*tty your day turned out. Once on the surface, you are still going to be in do-do because now you may or may not be able to right yourself because you are floating in like a cork bass-ackward. If you were panicking before doing this you will probably not being doing much better on the surface... CESA and boyuant accents are lovely important to know and keep as last resorts, but I still think I would rather reach down and grab(in order of preference) my octo or pony, my buddies octo, the instructructors/DM octo and finally CESA and last and absolutely least my weight buckle. dumping weight once you are the surface is fine if you are trying to get control of a disaster, like a distressed diver or overwelming surface condition, because it is helping to keep you there, I think the OP made some okay choices in his case. he walked away a wiser man and didn't panic, which was the single most important factor. I think most people would have labeled dumping his weights as a panic move that would have put him away from the rest of party on the surf and possibly with an embolism, and I would not bet he would be in a condition to use a signal whistle to alert the boat of his distress.... hope for the best plan for the worst.

 

[triplecove]

This same scenario happened to me at Smith rock off of scituate Ma. about 3 weeks ago. It might sound funny but having the mouthpiece still in your mouth throws off your thought process. I was 5' from my buddy and in 35' of water and the first thing I said to myself was "stay calm" and then I statrted a swim to the surface. About 1/2 way to the surface I relized what happened and grabbed my secondary cleared it (not easy while there is no mouthpiece) In my situation I would rather make 5' of progress to the surface than 5 or 10' (he was taking after a rather large lobster) horizontal.
I think I am a better diver for the experience. I hope I will recognize what is going on faster if it ever happens again (shouldnt now that I give both mouthpieces a hefty tug1!0

 

[Mike]

Just reading these last few posts really emphasizes how many ways there are to easily die while diving, one moment you're swimming with the fishes and the next you're sleeping with em

 

[TSandM]

In my situation I would rather make 5' of progress to the surface than 5 or 10' (he was taking after a rather large lobster) horizontal.​

In your case, you were probably right. But it's unfortunate that you were diving with someone whose desire for a lobster outweighed his sense of responsibility for his buddy. Five feet of separation isn't a lot, if both divers are aware, but if one has his back to the other and is swimming away fast, it might be an eternity for someone who is out of gas. This is where good dive lights for signaling can be very helpful, but even they won't work if the diver being signaled has become so focused that he doesn't notice the light.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

If you will notice, the sentence of my post that was bolded says he should go to his buddy for gas, IF HE NEEDED GAS. In this case, he didn't, but he didn't know it. As I said earlier, one of the takeaways for me from this story is that it may be useful to take our students through a quick differential diagnosis of regulator problems, and what to do or try in the event that they occur. A wet reg should immediately prompt a switch to the backup reg; there really aren't any failures that are going to deliver water to both second stages. A reg which suddenly stops delivering gas is much more likely to be a first stage problem, or a dip tube problem (or an out-of-gas problem) where switching to the backup reg is unlikely to solve the problem. However, while one is moving toward one's buddy, assuming said buddy was not immediately at hand, trying the backup reg is not a bad interim move.

Personally, I would much rather have a person who is having trouble securing a source of breathable gas go, at least temporarily, to his buddy, than persist in ineffective attempts at self-rescue until the problem becomes truly unmanageably urgent. Once a diver is on his buddy's backup, he has a whole LOT of time to inspect his equipment and try various options, at leisure and calmly. While he is in the water without a source of breathing gas, time is very severely limited, and his thinking is unlikely to be methodical.

Didn't mean to take your comments out of context. Of course your first option is to go to a buddy if you can't get air from your own unit.

A wet, badly leaking reg can still be used, (at least temporarily) if the purge button is gently pressed and the diver inhales gently rather than sucking on the reg. Learning how to breath from a reg with a torn mouthpiece (or folded over exhause valve) might not be a bad skill to teach...