No air at 40' at night

[billt4sf]

Also, remember that on a recreational Open Water dive, the surface is always an option. No matter what kind of bad things are happening underwater, or whether it's day or night or low visibility, you can always ditch your weights and ascend keeping an open airway, as taught in class. This ensures that you will arrive safely at the surface and stay there, and works regardless of whatever problem you're having, and will still work just fine, even if you can't tell which way is "up" because of vertigo or a blown eardrum.

"Up" always works when you ditch your weights.

I am glad you mentioned this because as I think about it now, I am thinking that my next step would have been the emergency ascent. I just hope I would remember to blow air on the way up. But remember also that I had just exhaled, a kind of big sigh exhale (I try not to do that and I am getting better at it). So I'm not sure if I would have had enough air in my lungs to make it to the surface from 40', even given that the air is going to expand.

 

[CT-Rich]

This has never happened to me but I finished diving a tank last week and decided to go for a snorkel before heading home. I pushed off into the water, forgetting that I was wearing my weight belt and was almost perfectly neutral. I got a big mouthful of seawater when I stayed under water instead of hitting the surface. Surprised the crap out of me. I can't imagine your surprise in the dark, congratulation on not drowning. Any time you live to fight another day is good. You learned a lot in a small amount of time and next time you get a mouthful of water you will be even better prepared.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I really wouldn't be upset about new divers doing a night dive. Here in Puget Sound, it's not uncommon for algae blooms in the summer to render the top 20 feet virtually opaque -- below that, the viz can be quite good, but it's very dark. New divers just have to learn to cope with the reduced light, or not dive at all.

I wholeheartedly agree that the first reaction SHOULD have been to go to his buddy for gas, if he needed gas. If his buddy was too far away, or he didn't know where she was, that was another failure. The dive guide should also have collected the other diver and taken her to the surface with them, but he may not have felt that the OP was under good enough control to be kept underwater. I think the wife did quite well; I know that, at 15 dives, being left at depth in the dark, by myself, would have been more than unnerving.

My guess is that the OP will check the condition of his equipment pretty careful, at least for a while, and I wouldn't be surprised if he and his wife practice a few air-sharing drills, too, having learned that running out of gas is not the only reason you might need to share air!

I STRONGLY disagree with the idea that you should first look to your buddy. I have recently been teaching my young son to dive (over the last 4 years) and I have repeated over and over... "if you have trouble breathing, do NOT signal me.... try to fix the problem first, THEN signal me"..

Of course he is required to wear a pony bottle and the second stage is around his neck... The diver's first instinct should be to try to solve the breathing problem themselves... especially a wet reg would indicate the need to go to an alternative second stage.

The idea that a diver should first look to a buddy, before instinctively trying to solve the problem themself is 180 degrees to my thinking... What if a mask strap breaks and the mask falls off? Do you want a diver signalling he has a problem or snatching it off the bottom and slapping it on their face?

I dive solo a lot, but I really don't think this affects my attitude. I've had many problems that I have asked a buddy to resolve... because it was easier than doing it myself... but if I can't breath from my reg, the first thing I do is try my other one....


On another note... this is another example of the significant danger of the ridiculously crappy way the industry promotes as a suitable methos for attachment of a mouth piece. I always use aircraft safety wire (or sometimes some good string with a constrictor knot) and then I sometimes add a zip tie over those methods for redundancy.

Relying on a single zip tie seems like a very bad idea. The many, many anecdotal stories we hear is ample evidence that this represents a VERY Likely failure point (relatively anyway).

 

[billt4sf]

I got a big mouthful of seawater when I stayed under water.

Actually I never got a mouthful of water. I felt the water in the mouthpiece with my tongue before I breathed in and yeah, it scared the crap out of me! Especially since I had just exhaled big. I certainly felt the panic, I just didn't let it take control of me for those few seconds. I did have an urge to breathe in, even knowing it was seawater. I actually thought about giving in to that urgency to breathe.

My guess is that had Matt not been there, had my buddy (my wife, also a novice diver) been there instead -- if there had been a moment or two more of uncertainty -- I may well have panicked. I'm also guessing that if I had bolted for the surface that would have induced or allowed panic but I'm not sure I could explain why.

Yes, surely we should learn to rely on our buddies. In this situation we were in a group with a DM (he is an instructor). There was no way I was going to swim back to my buddy in this situation. OK, maybe to signal the DM we both should have swum up to him together to signal 1/2 tank? Frankly when we have done these types of dives we pretty much followed the DM along and I bet most new divers do, too. Emily and I have learned more to rely on each other as we have gotten away from DM-led dives and into diving as a team. This is a new thing for us at 30 dives or so.

 

[DandyDon]

I'm surprised to see anyone telling him to not go to his buddy for help. That's what buds are for.

This is a reasonably common problem with new divers and rental equipment where the diver brings a mouthpiece, but doesn't use the wire tie to secure it, or doesn't tighten the wire tie enough or doesn't get the mouthpiece fully seated on the regulator.

While this particular failure probably won't sneak up on you again, now that you know what to look for, you always need to be ready that your last breath was your last breath, and maintain appropriate buddy distance and contact. Then no matter what happens to make you "Out of Air" you can handle it.

Also, remember that on a recreational Open Water dive, the surface is always an option. No matter what kind of bad things are happening underwater, or whether it's day or night or low visibility, you can always ditch your weights and ascend keeping an open airway, as taught in class. This ensures that you will arrive safely at the surface and stay there, and works regardless of whatever problem you're having, and will still work just fine, even if you can't tell which way is "up" because of vertigo or a blown eardrum.

"Up" always works when you ditch your weights.

It's not a great first option (it's always better if you can share air and do a normal ascent), however it's also not exceptionally dangerous and is much safer than drowning.

flots.

I'm surprised you suggest ditching weights for a CESA need? Yes, ditch them if you need to, and my bud & I do drill on that first dive of every trip so we won't ever be one of those found on bottom with weights intact - but from 40 ft, I don't see the need. Even after exhaling, he'd need to keep his airway open ascending but he should have plenty - if he couldn't get to his buddy's alternate reg.

Actually I never got a mouthful of water. I felt the water in the mouthpiece with my tongue before I breathed in and yeah, it scared the crap out of me! Especially since I had just exhaled big. I certainly felt the panic, I just didn't let it take control of me for those few seconds. I did have an urge to breathe in, even knowing it was seawater. I actually thought about giving in to that urgency to breathe.

Ok, I thought you breathed in water, which can lead to choking and even laryngospasm. Good you caught it quicker. I felt really dumb choking on my leaking snorkel in 3 ft in front of kinfolks the other day. Now I know to check my regs & snorkels both closer, thanks to you and that experience.

My guess is that had Matt not been there, had my buddy (my wife, also a novice diver) been there instead -- if there had been a moment or two more of uncertainty -- I may well have panicked. I'm also guessing that if I had bolted for the surface that would have induced or allowed panic but I'm not sure I could explain why.

Yes, surely we should learn to rely on our buddies. In this situation we were in a group with a DM (he is an instructor). There was no way I was going to swim back to my buddy in this situation. OK, maybe to signal the DM we both should have swum up to him together to signal 1/2 tank? Frankly when we have done these types of dives we pretty much followed the DM along and I bet most new divers do, too. Emily and I have learned more to rely on each other as we have gotten away from DM-led dives and into diving as a team. This is a new thing for us at 30 dives or so.

Back to your buddy? Yeah, you need to stay together so you can help each other.

 

[Fish-R-Man]

The quick switch to your second is primary in these situations. That is why I really like mine on a necklace. It just a simple fluid transition to drop one and pick up the next. I don't have to look for it, it won't be pulled loose and trailing behind or full of sand or otherwise not functional. If you use rental gear, you may never have the octo in the same place. I have seen a whole variety of ways that they secure their seconds, from stuffing them in pockets or under your waist strap to various clips, etc. If you are using rental gear, you can pick up a necklace from LP for a few bucks and just install it when you set up ypur gear and then take it home with you when you are done.

 

[pjhansman]

Given that mouthpieces are merely tension mounted by a zip-tie, I'm honestly surprised it doesn't happen more often.

Not true for all mouthpieces. The clamping mechanism on my G250V pretty much ensures that the mouthpiece has to rip to come off. Not saying that could never happen but I'm suggesting it wouldn't happen mid-dive....more likely to happen when you're climbing over lava rocks on exit and accidently step on the damn thing.

 

[billt4sf]

Who, or what, is "LP" ?

 

[fisheater]

Not sure of you were using your own gear. If it was rental, it's damned hard to build a "muscle memory" of where your other second stage is when each gear setup has it in a different place. Without that muscle memory, it's really easy to skip over the deal with it myself option.

I own my gear and travel with if I'm diving on vacation. It's well worth the weight penalty to know the repair and maintenance status of my gear and to have developed the muscle memory of what do when the fecal matter collides with the air circulation devise. E.g, I know exactly how to ditch weight if I can't get buoyant at the surface and if I can't breath off my primary second stage, my backup is right below my chin, mouthpiece pointing up and ready.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[BabyDuck]

Who, or what, is "LP" ?

leisure pro. it's a store in nyc that has a big online presence & sells (sometimes grey market) gear cheaply.