Nitrox: Which agency to use?

[bentcaver]

I have talked with two training directors with PADI while at DEMA 2013. The final outcome from the talks is: 1)if a diver has an Open Water certification from another agency and there are limitations on the certification they are not able to take a diving continuing education course through a PADI program. At the present time PADI does not have a way to note limitations on certifications for individuals. 2) if a diver wants to take a non-diving specialty there is not an issue (I.e. Enriched Air Diver Specialty).

The work around to this is for the PADI instructor to contact the certifying instructor. Then take the diver to the pool and complete the 24 skills circuit and give the final exam. Then you can take the diver into the open water for 4 dives to complete the Open Water Certification. This now relieves the issue of limitations on the certification card.

I am offering this same option to a HSA diver who wants to take peak performance buoyancy specialty. For all intentions this two dive specialty will become a 6 dive specialty. In my offer I am willing to do the Open Water referral part of the class for a greatly reduced rate (no instructor fee and asking the shop to reduce their part of the class as there will be no books and only one pool session needed). I will offer the same option to any diver with a certification with limitations if appropriate.

It is not PADi's intention to discredit HSA or any diver certified through HSA. As it has been stated in the past post, PADI helped with development of HSA and some times supplies educational materials.

Any diver that has a handicap that is able to complete any certification program has made a great achievement and should be commended. As well as any Vet who has served and paid the price by being injured, and earns his/her certification.


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[KoiWatcher]

Dude that is so wrong, even at the height of the agency wars in the 80's PADI was only requiring YMCA, NASE and NAUI folks to do dives 3 and 4 plus the written test for a PADI equivalency basic open water certification. You/PADI are complementing disabled veterans in one sentence and then through PADI's "offer" you are telling them that what they have accomplished through HSA means nothing, as almost 100% of the basic open water course must be re-accomplished. I would be surprised if anyone took you/PADI up on this so called "offer" when other agencies seem to handle disabled veterans better. I am curious: Is the person you are making your offer to wheelchair bound or disabled to such an extent such that you/PADI feels they should not be allowed to dive? What is the extent of their disability (combat or non-combat related being irrelevant to this discussion)? Did they do a DSD that you could credit at least one dive towards? There has to be something I am just not understanding here.

Actions speak louder than words, and right now I can't see PADI's actions being interpreted favorably by the disabled veteran community, nor can I see anyone in our disabled veteran community recommending PADI as a certifying agency. Perhaps someone from PADI's central office might care to join in this discussion? What is it about HSA basic open water scuba diver certified disabled veterans that the thought of one us showing up for a PADI continuing education course makes PADI writhe at the thought?

Thank you for the update, sad though it is.

 

[bentcaver]

KoiWatcher you are one of thoes that want to keep the agency war alive. There are a lot of different agencies out there that offer certification for scuba diving. There are no good or bad agencies. There are good / bad instructors out there. The divers of the world were not trained by the certification agency, but by their instructor(s).

Your comments that I complement a vet and then tell them what they have accomplished means nothing is so far from the truth. I am a vet of the USN and support local vet programs, disabled or not. This issue is not about vet or disabled vet.

HSA is a great organization and it has its place in the scuba industry. They have allowed individules that would not been allowed to enter the underwater world a chance to enjoy the exploration as most of us do. HSA have three levels of Open Water certification, Level A - you're certified to dive with one other person; a Level B diver must dive with two other able-bodied divers and a Level C diver not only requires two dive buddies, but one must be trained in diver rescue. Not only do they train individules with different abilities they train/educate the non-disabled to assist as buddies. Most all other training agencies do not have this type of limitation on their Open Water Certifications. I have not taken any courses from HSA, but it is on my education plan in the near furture.

I am willing to work with any diver to reach any goal they want in the underwater world. If a person come to me with a certification level from an agency I do not know, I first will contact PADI to find out if it meets prerequisites. Then I will talk with the diver and develop a training plan. I have had this done with me in the past for a Tec level certification as well as an instructor certification. I did not try to find a work around to meet my goal, I followed the plan. (no I am not a sheep). When I find a course that I want to take, I do not look at the letters of the agency that they teach for. I look at the individules experiance and reputation first.

One area of this is the HSA OW Level B certification. If I were to take a person with this certification into a PADI continuing education certification course and issue them a certification, I am saying that this person has no limitations, but they came to me with a certification with limitations. Now down the road the diver has an accident and a lawyer gets involved. Who do you think the lawyer is going to go after, HSA Instructor (who said that this diver has limitation for safety) or me who issued a certification that does not have limitations.

Case in point: I had earned my 3rd degree black belt in Kempo Karate in the past. After being away for over 10 years, I decided to get back into Karate to get into shape. Could I perform at the same level as I was at over 10 years ago, no. I found a local Instructor that had a good reputation and went in and talked with him. I did let him know that I had a 3rd degree black belt but admitted that I am no longer at that level. He asked me how I would feel putting on a white belt again. My reply was am I going to be learning and getting a chance to get back into shape? The answer was YES on his part and I started training again (as a white belt). Now move this into scuba. I was a tec instructor with two agencies and had heard a lot of great stuff about GUE Fundementals course. I decided to take the class. This class was not a cake walk and I did learn from it even though it would be considered a step back. The instructor even asked me why I was taking the course and I told him to learn something.

Again, I think I have stated that this is not an attack on veterans, disabled or not. It is not an attack on any Certification Agency and their certifications issues by instructors teaching there education program.

I do not think that if a person was HSA OW Level A we would be having this same discussion as every OW certified diver out there is trained to dive with a buddy.

I am offering a HSA OW Level B diver a educational path to improve his buoyancy, which was his state goal.

If there is a training agency that is willing to provide an educational path that will not have a review of skills and that is willing to say that a diver does not need the prior limitations stated by issuing a continuing education card, all the best.

"A Good Diver Is Always Learning..."
"You can not learn to dive from a book or watching YouTube."

 

[Goodtime Adventures]

TDI or even perhaps SSI could be the way forward. Having not come across students trained by HSA before, I'm not 100% on their (SSI) acceptance for con ed, but they have an excellent international referral policy whereby students that have completed even just part of a course with another agency, can continue to attain the full cert with them. So I'd be surprised if they couldn't help. It also doesn't make a whole heap of difference if they are not in your region, most Eanx courses can be completed online.

 

[KoiWatcher]

I apologize if I offended you or anyone else. That was not my intent.

In your scenario I just don't see how someone completing a padi buoyancy continuing education course means that the hsa b or c level basic open water certification restrictions are removed?

I think the reason tdi/sdi will accept it is that they have a scubility program which is equivalent to hsa. Therefore the recommendation that the trainee use a different agency may be the best advice.