Nitrox Class Without Tables or Math...OK?

[Soggy]

Man, sometimes you really make my day, Andy. Thanks for the laugh

no, actually ... all were nice sentences, with this exception:



a minor error, but properly, you should have a comma, not a colon, to separate
that last dependent clause.

if you want extra emphasis, a dash "--" would work too.

 

[H2Andy]

yes, well, i go around trying to make people's days ... sometimes i succeed all too well

:mooner:

 

[The Chairman]

Listening to alarms is the antithesis of situational awareness.

So you just ignore them? Way to go! Let's face it. Below 80 fsw every diver is impaired. You need ALL of the help you can get. Anyone who teaches different has a fundamentally different approach to narsosis than I do. You are close to being farm animal stupid, only you just don't realise it. In that situation, I want EVERY student of mine to be AWARE of every alarm: ascent rate and depth are two important ones to be aware of.

Denial is not just another river in Egypt.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Mike, you have stated at least twice that you teach your students how to not get narc'ed. That's beyond my abilities. Me? I teach them that narcosis starts a lot earlier than you think, that you normally can't feel it and that you should AVOID it as much as possible. The most dangerous diver is the one who says that they never get narc'ed.

Point out the post that you're refering to. I'll look at what I wrote and try to make whatever I said clearer because I don't know any tricks that will make one immune to inert gas narcosis. In fact, in general, I think the rec community is way to lax when it comes to narcosis.

As for the tables... do as I teach, but not as I dive? That's a slippery slope, though there are things that I teach that I do not do (like have a buddy on every dive). For the most part, I try to dive in the way that I teach: less ambiguity that way.

I don't always teach a diver to dive exactly as I do because by the very nature of the situation I would normally be teaching some one who is far less experienced than I am. I really don't have to dive exactly like a new OW certified diver.

But why in a discussion about a dive class do you feel it neccesary to bring up how YOU dive without the need of tables or computers?

I didn't bring it up. some one else described a dive they did and "bet" that we all dive the same way. I stated that they lost the bet. He asked how and I explained. I was just responding to a question.

It sounds as if your opinion of your diving prowess far exceeds mine. You thus present yourself as being above these "ordinary laws" of the mere mortal and it smacks of arrogance.

Really? I could have swore that I stated that my profiles were generally more conservative than what many table or computers will allow. I thought I explained enough about the process to show that what I do is the result of study and thought rather than some God given ability to dive in a way that no one else can.

What "ordinary laws" of a mere mortal did I lead you to believe that I am imune to? I simply take the same information that's provided by decompression models, software and tables and apply it in a way that I've found to be more versatile, convenient and reliable for me. What law am I ignoring? Think of it like running a whole bunch of schedules with some software and remembering them so you don't have to run it everytime. With a little work and though, any one can do the same.

Humility is a good thing in my book. I personally need more of it as do most people! It is my humble opinion that arrogance can kill a person faster than anything. Especially if it's combined with a healthy dose of denied narcosis.

Humility is great but how is explaining my though process or how I apply the information that I have to some one who asked appear as un-humble? It's a simple statement of fact that's independant of what I think of myself or anyone else.

If you really think that I have EVER denied narcosis then you must have missed the countless threads on YOUR board where I have debated AGAINST deep diving without helium! It's hard top believe that you missed every single one of those.

I give instruction on a focused area, and try to do that exceedingly well. I refrain from trying to cure every bad habit they have in one class. One step at a time. Safety is always first. If you want the next step, take the next class, or just go dive with me. I don't keep many secrets.

Me too except for I found that I had to add things to entry level training because I was very concerned about the safety of my students given some of the things that go on at resorts. I had to move some training that is needed more at 130 ft than it is at 30 ft because I found many of those newly certified students would be at 130 ft as soon as they got to the resort the very next dive after completing OW certification...and before they could come back and take more advanced training.

 

[TheRedHead]

no, actually ... all were nice sentences, with this exception:



a minor error, but properly, you should have a comma, not a colon, to separate
that last dependent clause.

if you want extra emphasis, a dash "--" would work too.

The clause which was seperated by a colon was an independent clause: it can stand by itself.

 

[The Chairman]

C'mon Pete, stop with the BS. You're better than that.

You know darn well what Mike means with respect to narcosis.

Do I? All I know is what he has written. You are ASSUMING you think you know what he means. I only wish I could get that benefit of the doubt from a few of my critics. Such is life!

 

[Soggy]

Were I to get an alarm, I would've already screwed up and I would pay attention to it. However, I don't get alarms because I am able to monitor my depth and time and know what gas I am breathing. This is not because I am incapable of making mistakes, but because I pay attention. Even if I violated my MOD by a foot or two, I'd surely know it within a few seconds because I keep track of my gauges.

That, and I have them all turned off since I dive in gauge mode...

If chosing a proactive response is farm animal stupid, then bring on the pigs.

So you just ignore them? Way to go! Let's face it. Below 80 fsw every diver is impaired. You need ALL of the help you can get. Anyone who teaches different has a fundamentally different approach to narsosis than I do. You are close to being farm animal stupid, only you just don't realise it. In that situation, I want EVERY student of mine to be AWARE of every alarm: ascent rate and depth are two important ones to be aware of.

Denial is not just another river in Egypt.

 

[The Chairman]

Mike,

please feel free to go back and re-read your own words. They are within this thread.

It appears that you like to criticize but do you feel that you are above criticism? It's great that you feel that you are more humble than anyone in this discussion, but not everyone shares this opinion.

 

[The Chairman]

Were I to get an alarm, I would've already screwed up and I would pay attention to it. However, I don't get alarms

And you have NEVER, EVER gotten alarms? Even when you were new to diving? Move over Jacques Cousteau and Mike Nelson! Such perfection I have never seen. Pardon my incredulity!

 

[Rick Murchison]

So you just ignore them?

Come on Pete. You know good and well what Soggy means - 'cause he said it. But I'll re-state it:
If you are situationally aware you will not need to listen to alarms because there won't be any alarms.
That's not ignoring alarms.
That's avoiding alarms by planning, knowing where you are and what you're doing, by detecting the things that may cause an alarm before they do.
Sheeesh!
Rick