Nitrox Class Without Tables or Math...OK?

[The Chairman]

This is just an ad to sell Nitrox computers.

Well, no! I don't sell gear. It is an ad for an entry level class that teaches you how to dive NitrOx using your computer and not tables. It was never meant to be a discussion about the relative merits of the way NitrOx is taught. That's why it's here in the trips and happenings forum and not in the I2I or basic Scuba forum.

Let’s see, so far I have been accused directly or by innuendo of:

1) encouraging people to turn OFF the computer between their ears
2) teaching a joke
3) trying to sell more computers (twice)
4) trying to sell easy courses (true: why over complicate?)
5) Not teaching MOD
6) (finally) teaching a course where all I do is to CYA in case people die.


If you really want to "debate" the ins and outs of a certain ideology when it comes to diving and teaching diving, the trips and happenings place ain't it. It is wonderful to see that those who have not taken the class, read the SDI book or scrutinized the syllabus have taken the time to discredit what they know NOTHING about. It's always easy to criticize BEFORE you find out the facts. All you have to do is to “disconnect your brain and turn your PC on”.

It would also appear that some have no idea how to use their computer to plan a dive, including their MOD and their best mix. Why teach a diving method that the students will not want to use? Just because it fits YOUR esoteric criteria? Heck, why don't we teach them how to create their OWN tables, and ONLY THEN they are really ready to dive. Me? I think NitrOx, properly used can reduce the number of injuries in diving, especially sub-clinical DCS. Why limit NitrOx to only those willing to use tables when all of the safety can be retained by teaching them the PROPER way to use their dive computers?

But then again... since it's NOT the way YOU might do it, it must be evil and driven only by my sinister need to control the universe. Thanks for hijacking this thread about my class. Since I recuse myself from moderating my own thread, maybe some moderator will see fit to move the ENTIRE thread to a better suited area for discussion. It's not fair to hijack a thread about a class or a trip. Mine or anyone else's.

 

[Rick Inman]

I am starting this thread do to a reciently offered "Easy" Nitrox course, that advertises, "Get Nitrox Certified Today, The Easy Way!

No more complicated formulas and tables. All diving is based on a Nitrox Computer. Get the most from your dives the easy way. "


Is there anything wrong with teaching a course in Nitrox using only a computer? No tables? No math equations to learn for MOD, EAD or PPO2s?

What do you think?

 

[Rick Inman]

Well, no! I don't sell gear. It is an ad for an entry level class that teaches you how to dive NitrOx using your computer and not tables. It was never meant to be a discussion about the relative merits of the way NitrOx is taught. That's why it's here in the trips and happenings forum and not in the I2I or basic Scuba forum.

Let’s see, so far I have been accused directly or by innuendo of:

1) encouraging people to turn OFF the computer between their ears
2) teaching a joke
3) trying to sell more computers (twice)
4) trying to sell easy courses (true: why over complicate?)
5) Not teaching MOD
6) (finally) teaching a course where all I do is to CYA in case people die.


If you really want to "debate" the ins and outs of a certain ideology when it comes to diving and teaching diving, the trips and happenings place ain't it. It is wonderful to see that those who have not taken the class, read the SDI book or scrutinized the syllabus have taken the time to discredit what they know NOTHING about. It's always easy to criticize BEFORE you find out the facts. All you have to do is to “disconnect your brain and turn your PC on”.

It would also appear that some have no idea how to use their computer to plan a dive, including their MOD and their best mix. Why teach a diving method that the students will not want to use? Just because it fits YOUR esoteric criteria? Heck, why don't we teach them how to create their OWN tables, and ONLY THEN they are really ready to dive. Me? I think NitrOx, properly used can reduce the number of injuries in diving, especially sub-clinical DCS. Why limit NitrOx to only those willing to use tables when all of the safety can be retained by teaching them the PROPER way to use their dive computers?

But then again... since it's NOT the way YOU might do it, it must be evil and driven only by my sinister need to control the universe. Thanks for hijacking this thread about my class. Since I recuse myself from moderating my own thread, maybe some moderator will see fit to move the ENTIRE thread to a better suited area for discussion. It's not fair to hijack a thread about a class or a trip. Mine or anyone else's.

OK

LINK

 

[Brandon]

Math is so 2005.

-B

 

[Soggy]

It's further dumbing down of critical curriculum and supporting the trend of creating divers that don't know how to think. If you are so inept that you cannot learn a to read a table and a couple simple formulas, you probably shouldn't be diving anyhow. Nitrox is easy stuff...I can't imagine making it any easier. I saw that thread on here and if it is what I think it is, that particular person should be ashamed of themselves for teaching it.

 

[The Chairman]

You know,

I have yet to see a NitrOx class that comprehensively taught the student HOW to use their computer! Now THAT is negligence. You call it "dumbing down", I call it focusing on using your tools wisely and efficiently.

And no, I am not ashamed!!! Are you ashamed of your effete snobbery when it comes to who can dive, much less dive NitrOx?

 

[Soggy]

Sorry, if a student is incapable of doing 4th grade math, then diving is far to complicated for them. You are welcome to call it snobbery if you want. I call it weeding out the Darwin candidates before they hurt themselves. It's not much of a leap to explain to someone who should already understand that 1 ATA = 33 fsw how to apply Dalton's law.

If you wanted to *add* in how to use your computer while diving nitrox, I wouldn't object to that, but dumbing down the already easy curriculum isn't the way to do it.

Best of luck to you. I'm sure you'll get plenty of students. There is always a surplus of people out there looking for the easy way out.

 

[gcbryan]

You know,

I have yet to see a NitrOx class that comprehensively taught the student HOW to use their computer! Now THAT is negligence. You call it "dumbing down", I call it focusing on using your tools wisely and efficiently.

And no, I am not ashamed!!! Are you ashamed of your effete snobbery when it comes to who can dive, much less dive NitrOx?

No one's complaining about you showing someone how to use their computer.

 

[scubatexastony]

Pete,

I've made dives with a lot of folks that don't even know how to set their computers to Nitrox mode, much less key in the FO2 (after analyzing) and Limiting PPO. It is a much needed class. Instructors would be well off to be certain computer diving is covered well and understood in their Nitrox classes.

That said, gas selection, MOD and oxygen toxicity should still be addressed in a Nitrox class, which I'm sure will be covered in your class, if it leads to Nitrox certification.

Kudos to an eye catching Title, though. Oh, give it a rest Hollywood

 

[mattroz]

I might be the only one who agrees with netdoc..
first off to say that if you can't do the math you can't dive is ridiculous. do you plug in your depths into the algorithms before diving? no? well i don't think you should be diving! a dive table is a tool and a dive computer is an improvement on a tool. Saying that you shouldn't dive with a computer is like saying that if you don't understand how to drive a horse drawn carriage then you can't drive a car. When i'm at the dive shop and I analyze my mix and it comes up to an odd mix (not 32 or 36) i don't go running to the formulas I take the computer that is conviently right next to me and I punch in the mix to find the MOD. If most the divers are using computers why not teach them with computers? Evolution is about evolving away the old methods of doing things. Computers are here to stay and knowing the algorithm won't help you understand how to be safe.