Nitrox class question

[TCDiver1]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...


LOL! Since when is that a crime?

It may not be popular, but then, as Mark Twain once noted, when something is popular, then it means you have at least every other idiot on your side, and that is a majority anywhere.

Because you say things like this .... thats why!

 

[TCDiver1]

cornfed once bubbled...

Mike, these are all valid points but they're secondary to getting the guy safely to the surface.

That may be true but are they reasonable to the amount of time required to teach a given course? Mikes point is very valid, all these things take time, where do you draw the line?

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

gedunk once bubbled...


Because you say things like this .... thats why!

Mark Twain's proverbs apply to everything, even scuba diving!

 

[TCDiver1]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...


Mark Twain's proverbs apply to everything, even scuba diving!

True .... one of my favorite Twain quotes:

"Don't let school interfere with your education"

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

gedunk once bubbled...


True .... one of my favorite Twain quotes:

"Don't let school interfere with your education"

Speaking of school, anyone who studied formal logic will have learned that the classic fallacies contain the fallacy of popular belief.

Anything popular is normally a fallacy.

And anything valid is normally unpopular and ahead of its day.

The masses and masses of lemmings simply need decades and eons to catch up with truth. That is true is scuba as well. Not just in school.

 

[TCDiver1]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...


Speaking of school, anyone who studied formal logic will have learned that the classic fallacies contain the fallacy of popular belief.

Anything popular is normally a fallacy.

And anything valid is normally unpopular and ahead of its day.

The masses and masses of lemmings simply need decades and eons to catch up with truth. That is true is scuba as well. Not just in school.

Well Karl, i'm afraid the extent of my formal training in logic is Boolean in nature and not much help in this case.

However, your argument is lost on me since in this case the popular view in this thread does not track with the popular view (PADI, etc) in diving. MHK's GUE thought process may be popular in here but it is not mainstream outside of this board in general.

With that said, you just jumped off a cliff pal and i have never been much of a follower.:tease:

 

[Big-t-2538]

Northeastwrecks once bubbled...

Big T: I didn't mean to suggest that DIR-F would allow you to get Nitrox fills. However, during DIR-F, we discussed proper gas selection in some detail. We discussed the reasons for using particular gasses at particular depths and how gas selection effects NDL and deco obligations. That said, every one of my classmates was already Nitrox certified.

That is the beauty of the instructor's ability to tailor the class to the audience....It is something that all good instructors posess

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...


That is the beauty of the instructor's ability to tailor the class to the audience....It is something that all good instructors posess

Not all the training agencies allow this flexibility.

For those who do, it is a two edged sword. It has its pro's and con's like everything else in scuba.

 

[cornfed]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...

Not all the training agencies allow this flexibility.

Then someone teaching for that agency wouldn't qualify as a good instructor.

You could be the greatest instructor in the world but that doesn't make a difference if the agency you teach for ties your hands behind your back.

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

MHK once bubbled...
...

I've yet to see a compelling reason not to teach it.
...

It seems to me that any contingency skill is taught with the very premise that you may never use it, but in case you need it we teach it. I don't buy your argument at all that just because you teach to stay above MOD's that you'll don't need to teach rescues. I hope you never do need it, but it's nice to know the proper method, as they say " In the unlikely event"..

You can choose to teach your classes anyway you see fit, but you shouldn't be surprised when you leave out critical information if many of us may share a different point of view..

Mike(MHK), I appreciate your feedback, and that of those who agree with you and who present their trains of thought as well. (Boolean "and" ie requiring both.)

NAUI has established their minimum standard on this, that ox tox rescue must be taught in Technical EANx.

NAUI leaves it up to the instructor to decide whether to teach ox tox rescue in the Basic Rescue course or the Basic EANx course or neither.

I stated that someone is more likely to meet space aliens than to meet a non-tech diver ox toxing. To me, it seems that ox tox rescue is more appropriate for a Technical EANx course.

I know NAUI instructors who teach about ox tox rescue in their Basic Rescue course. I do not personally know anyone who feels ox tox rescue is appropriate for a basic EANx course.

There are political reasons as well. Why alarm the Basic EANx students with a scenario they are unlikely to encounter?

There are also time constraints. Nice to know stuff is nice to do if the class is really bright and there is extra time for nice to know stuff.

I do not believe the scuba world is going to stop revolving on its axis simply because a dozen or so training agencies do not teach ox tox rescue in Basic EANx.

It does not surprise me that your friends and fellow DIRF participants disagree with my views. What surprises me is when they shift into ad hominem mode and cry cry cry, then ending up on my ignor list.

Obviously you are not on my ignor list Mike. I value your experiences and your sometimes radical unorthodox views. Please dont hold your breath while you wait for me to adopt every one of your views Mike.