Nitrox bands

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reefraff:
Obviously an issue, since tanks labeled for nitrox shouldn't be filled with trimix. Since there is no standard for marking a cylinder for trimix, what would you accept as a practical example?

for trimix the only agreed upon standard is to have a label stating the gas mixtures and if its o2 clean or not..

ANDI's trimix stickers (about the size of a VIP) also have a box to indicate if the tank is nitrox compatible.. The label clearly states it can be A gas other than air, and you would write in the % of He, N2, o2..

This might hold up in court since your identifying all the gases, it might not...
Having BOTH may hold up better under scrutiny.. I'd rather not be the one to find out..

You could always add 1% He :wink: (assuming you are qualified)
 
ok im not reading all this so it might be repiditive..
your tanks wherenot o2 cleaned. but they charged ya the running rate for it...
they did a crappy visual at best.
i would o2 clean them yourself.....
ya dont NEED nitrox stickers. but something to id what your current mix is.....
and you dont need av. grade o2.. medical is fine..
and ya didnt hear it from me but most shops use regular welding o2
not including the bottle its about 50 bucks for a t bottle of o2
 
Re the NOAA rules -- can/will any of you provide a reference to those rules? Thanks.
 
The NOAA Diving Manual is an excellent reference book and belongs on the shelf of every serious diver. It's also copyright protected, which means quoting directly from it ("No part of this publication may be reproduced...) is a no-no. You can get your own copy directly from Best Publishing at http://www.bestpub.com. It's worth the money. However, to paraphrase the manual:

Nitrox Diving (Chapter 15)

15.11.4 Cleaning for Oxygen Service

NOAA calls for any equipment that is exposed to a percentage of oxygen in excess of 40% at a pressure in excess of 200 psi to be oxygen cleaned, i.e., you don't need to clean your tanks if they are never filled with anything but premix not exceeding 40%. If you partial pressure blend or use hotter mixes, your tanks (and valves and regulators) must be specially cleaned and serviced. Basically, NOAA defers to other specifications for the details of oxygen cleaning and servicing, specifically mentioning CGA, ASTM, NFPA, NASA and US Navy standards. In a section of the NOAA manual called "Informal Oxygen Cleaning" the general process is reviewed, including the need to use special cleaning agents and techniques, and oxygen compatible lubricants and materials. The NOAA standard also calls for the technicians performing oxygen cleaning and servicing to receive special training.

Chapter 15.12.2: Identification of Nitrox Cylinders

Calls for a four-inch green band on a yellow background at least one-in wide with two-inch tall lettering that says "Nitrox" or "Enriched Air" or similar. Readers will notice that "Geezer Gas" and "Voodoo Gas" are not specifically mentioned but the presumption has to be that neither would be acceptable.

15.12.3 Cylinder Label for Oxygen Cleaning

NOAA has a specific label (or will accept MIL STD 1330) that must be used. The label states that the tank was cleaned and inspected in accordance with NOAA standards. There is a punch out indicating that the tank may be used for either (a) oxygen service or (b) premix nitrox up to 40% but not both. There is also a punch out for the date of the cleaning/inspection and a statement that the cylinder will require reinspection at 12 months or sooner if contaminated.

15.12.4 Cylinder Labeling

Each cylinder must be labeled with the fill date, cylinder pressure, oxygen percentage, maximum operating depth, the name or identification of the person completing the label, and the user's initials verifying that it was analyzed.​

Mixed-Gas and Oxygen Diving (Chapter 16)


16.8 Cylinder Identification and Labeling

The section discusses the requirements for a contents label, essentially as discussed in Chapter 15. It adds that abbreviations for mixes should not be used, i.e., don't use the common abbreviation 18/50 but, instead, write out the mix - Oxygen 18%, Helium 50%, Nitrogen 32%.

It says that there is a clear convention for nitrox labeling and refers to Chapter 15 for details. It also mentions that oxygen cylinders are usually white or green with the word OXYGEN stenciled on the cylinder. Optionally, 20 may also be stenciled near the bottom of cylinders containing 100% O2. The section also states that there is not a standardized labeling or color coding system for trimix or heliox cylinders but it recommends that the MOD be marked in 2-3 inch letters horizontally near the bottom of the cylinder.​

It's important to remember that NOAA rules apply only to NOAA operations - they aren't law and, if you aren't diving on a NOAA project, you are free to take or leave them. For the most part, they are good standards but they tend to run a bit behind the times - they were written in the days when Nitrox was considered to be pretty much out there and trimix was freaky-scary stuff. As more and more sport divers use these gases it becomes important to iron out some of the inconsistencies and eliminate some of the bugaboo stuff. Personally, though I clean to CGA and ANDI standards, I don't use the nitrox bumper sticker on my tanks and mark the MOD vertically near the shoulder of the tank (not the bottom) on my deco and stage bottles - all my other bottles only have the MOD marked on the contents label.

Hope this helps.
 
reefraff:
Chapter 15.12.2: Identification of Nitrox Cylinders

Calls for a four-inch green band on a yellow background at least one-in wide with two-inch tall lettering that says "Nitrox" or "Enriched Air" or similar. Readers will notice that "Geezer Gas" and "Voodoo Gas" are not specifically mentioned but the presumption has to be that neither would be acceptable.
Although I'm not willing to put the 4" yellow and green Nitrox sticker on my cylinders, I'd definitely reconsider if I could find one that said "Voodoo Gas". :D
 
sharpenu:
The tank is oxygen clean, not just Nitrox. The LDS does not bank, they blend.

It was a brand new PST E7-100. I bought one from Scuba toys and one from the LDS.

They took the valve off, looked in it, and then put the stickers on it. Total time from the purchase to leaving the store with a full tank: less than 30 minutes.
Ah, all comes clear. PST E series are supposed to be oxygen clean and service rated right out of the box. The $35 was a penalty for buying elsewhere.
Rick :)
 
sharpenu:
I got my tanks O2 cleaned. Actually, I watched them do it- to clean the tank foir O2 service, they looked in it, said "Yep, it looks clean." and then put the stickers on it. For $35. When I asked them not to put the "Nitrox" bands on them, they told me if they do not, it would be illegal to fill them with anything but air.

I asked around and all the local LDS are saying the same. Am I being lied to? If it is illegal, can someone point me to the applicable law?

Cause I gotta say that at $35 for O2 cleaning, plus $7 per fill, I am ready to fill my own. I already have a compressor- can't cost THAT much to get aviator's oxygen....

That's BS. I can't imagine it could be happened in FL where one of the most favorable scuba diving states. I am wondering how many tech divers put the nitrox band on their double...... I think it would be more honesty for LDS to ask the money without saying any excuse or BS about the law and regulation.
 
It was tried on with me as well when I moved to FL. 'Had to put NITROX stickers on, or else I was not going to get filled, it was illegal'. Well when I mentioned that CGA and DOT requirements apply to commercial tanks only, and that I am a private person, they had a choice to get my weekly business of multiple fills, or someone else would....... they took the business.

I discussed in length with the LDS owner and flat out told him not to BS me, try to pull money out of me for cleaning etc, etc. Just fill the bottles and shut up.

tell 'em to naff off.
 
The problem is when ALL the local shops stick to that plan. They have the gas, they have the visual stickers, they make the rules. You either get fills from them, or you fill em yourself. I have access to a compressor at work, our air is tested every quarter and it is O2 compatible. All I need to do is provide O2 and I am set. I wonder what it will cost. I am going to find out.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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