Newly OW Certified and looking at gear packages!

[Jim Rohrer]

Hi all,

I've been lurking for a few months since starting my OW class, and just got certified a couple weekends ago!

Much to my wife's chagrin, I'm utterly addicted and looking into purchasing my own gear. Being in Ohio, I'm looking at gear that will perform well enough in the cooler waters of the local quarries (really enjoyed Gilboa when we checked out there).

My LDS is recommending this new gear package from Oceanic. Special Offer Flex 2 Package

Any comments either way on this package? It's right up my alley price-wise, but I want to make sure it's going to perform well enough.

Also, what are the prevailing opinions of starting out early with a dry suit? We were diving 55 degree water in Gilboa, and while unpleasant upon entry, once we got moving I really didn't mind too much in a two-piece 6mm setup. I think if the dives had been any longer than 30 minutes a piece, however, I would have been a popsicle.

Thanks!

 

[Colliam7]

. . . just got certified a couple weekends ago! Much to my wife's chagrin, I'm utterly addicted and looking into purchasing my own gear. Being in Ohio, I'm looking at gear that will perform well enough in the cooler waters of the local quarries (really enjoyed Gilboa when we checked out there).

Congratulations on your certification! And, thanks for sharing your enthusiasm. Diving can be a tremendously rewarding and fulfilling activity.

My LDS is recommending this new gear package from Oceanic. Special Offer Flex 2 Package. Any comments either way on this package? It's right up my alley price-wise, but I want to make sure it's going to perform well enough.

I have three comments: 1. STOP, BREATHE, THINK, ACT. You may have heard this before. Please don't jump into a gear decision quite yet. 2. You are proposing to pay $1100 for a jacket BCD, mid-range regulator and a computer. Not terrible, but nothing at all to write home about. If it was $599, and you were living in a warm tropical area, I would say, . . .maybe. Instead, I will ask you - what do YOU like about it, other than it is a package, and you are ready to invest? 3. You will be diving in an area where colder water is the norm, where thick neoprene or a drysuit (more on that, below) are the standard exposure protection, and where your weight requirement will therefore be substantial. You really don't want to add to the weight requirements with a positively buoyant BCD, with weight-integration.

Also, what are the prevailing opinions of starting out early with a dry suit?

I bought a drysuit about a year after I started diving, so that I could dive in NC quarries in the winter. That was over ten years ago, and to this day I consider it the BEST investment I have ever made in scuba gear. The suit is still going strong, I use it A LOT, and have no trouble encouraging a newer diver to get one early on, start using it early and often, become proficient in diving it - you will not regret doing so.

Back to your original question about the package.

1. Don't. There is nothing particularly wrong with it (besides being overpriced), but there is little to particularly commend it. I do not dive in my drysuit in anything other than a stainless steel backplate, or a specialty rig (like a Nomad for diving side mounted doubles). I simply do not want to have to deal with the weight burden required. Find someone in your area who dives a BP and try it out. This recommendation has less to do with the ongoing (and somewhat comical) jacket vs back-inflate vs backplate debate, and more to do with buoyancy, weight, and simplicity. Go to Gilboa some weekend now that the weather has turned cold. Observe what divers are using, and ask them WHY they are using whatever they are using.

2. Don't. There are LOTS of threads on this very subject - not this particular package but on many other similar deals. Do some research and read the many, many comments on newer divers, equipment, packages, etc.

3. Don't. You can do a lot better on the money (which means getting either a better price, or a better value for the money) if you take time to thoughtfully select gear. There are people on this board who can help you - Tobin (cool_hardware52) at Deep Sea Supply, or Jim Lapenta, to name just two that come to mind

4. Don't. Particularly if money has to be judiciously allocated. If it were me, knowing what I know today, and I had limited funds, I would even spend money on a drysuit first and rent / borrow gear for a while until you have more experience with different rigs.

Oh, and in case I forgot to mention it - Don't?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I would not consider that a good deal. Packages rarely are. That is a mid range reg at best. The CDX5 is a great first stage. The alpha 9 - adequate. It is not adjustable and does not have a venturi switch.
The flex is an entry level BC that is going to limit your diving and would not be my first choice if looking at a dry suit. I also do not like the way the weight pockets are designed. IMO the releases and buckles for them should not be covered like that. It was a change I suggested in the EDGE T2 BC after seeing a prototyoe at DEMA last year and am glad it was taken seriously and adopted. Hidden releases like that make it difficult to get pockets back in underwater when you can't always see what yoi are doing.
The computer is ok. I'd prefer a wrist mount though and simple spg.
I agree with Colliam as to the BPW.
Unless you have cash burning a hole in your pocket and really need this gear before spring -WAIT!
You are in Dayton. Just a little ways from Columbus. In March is Scubafest at the Embassy Suites in Dublin. On the northside of Columbus. It is a dive show for divers, by divers. I have had a booth there for four years now. And I will be there this year. I also do a presentation every year on some safety or training related issue. I just started working on this years. The title?

Tech Gear? Why it makes sense for new divers, students, and instructors.

I will be covering Back plate and wing systems, regulators, drysuits, lights, reels, SMB's etc. Items that some believe are just for tech divers. I will be comparing it with recreational set ups and have examples in the presentation and at my booth as I also sell gear. Before you buy, come to the show. Talk to me. Talk to other divers and other instructors. As enthusiastic as you sound now I can nearly guarantee that if you buy that package by the end of next summer you will be looking to get rid of it and get something more useful. Do you want to spend a grand or more twice in a few months? I'm guessing not. You can get higher level gear for less than that package.

 

[Keith.M]

Was all your training in a jacket BC?

I would suggest you at least try and rent a back inflate and try that for a few dives. Would be nice if you could try a BP/W as well.

Not sure what I would have ended up with had I waited, but I am glad I selected a BC with a wing (back inflate) but have sometimes wondered if I would have liked a straight BP/W even better.

I did get an Oceanic, but it is the Excursion 2 back inflate. I do like it a lot. but I have never dove with a BP/W and maybe I would have liked that even better.

I do feel that proper trim is a bit easier to obtain with a wing rather than a jacket and I have no issue with it pushing me forward at the surface.

I like the CTX5 first stage but would rather see that paired with a GT3 2nd.

I also prefer a wrist mount computer and clip off the SPG on the left hip D ring.

 

[Teller]

Call Cave Adventurers.

 

[Peter Guy]

I don't know the gear involved so I can't talk about the specifics. However, I do talk with my open water students about gear and here is what I tell them regarding buying gear:

a. As a new diver, buy gear that will work for you for quite some time so don't buy on price ALONE.

b. As a new diver, buy gear that can be serviced pretty much anywhere -- which to my mind puts a premium on Aqua Lung or Scuba Pro (or their subsidiaries such as SubGear).

I had a talk with my LDS owner and he put together a package that I thinks fits the bill and I enthusiastically recommend it to my students. The "value" package is $999 and the "enhanced" package is $1499 -- with the difference being that the enhanced package has a more robust regulator and dive computer. For what it's worth, I dive the BCD that is in the package, have older versions of the computers and use, or have used, the regulators so I have "put my money where my mouth is."

If you'd like specifics, PM me and I'll give you the full information, including the LDS phone number.

 

[Peter_C]

I would recommend reading about BP/W's and bungee backups with a longer primary hose. It is the system everyone I dive with uses, and most everyone is a recreational diver.

Buy your gear from where ever you want. You are not married to the LDS.

This is one package that is available and there are tons. Personally I would probably go with HOG brand. Talk to Jim Lapenta above, or catch Dive Right In Scuba's Black Friday sale.
Hollis Hollis Crossover Package | Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL

 

[pasley]

Lots of good advice here. Stop, Breathe, think and act. The BCD - take a look at how you would access your DrySuit inflation button while wearing this with the chest strap. Often the chest strap will go right across the drysuit chest inflation buttion.

Take a hard look at quality backplate and wing. DSS makes a great product for about the same cost as a jacket BCD. They are durable and modular so they adapt as you adapt. Leak in the air cell, patch or replace just the cell not the whole jacket. Nothing in the way on the chest. Metal plate about as wide as your back to stabilize the tank, not just a narrow strip of plastic trying to balance a 38-42 pound tank on it held in place by fabric jacket.

Look at the water temps of where you will be diving. There are cold water regulators and warm water regualtors. You are diving at the top edge of cold water regulator and the bottom end (just below it) of warm water regulator. There are regulators designed to perform at 0-130 and others built to go deep if you decide you want to go tech later and explore 200-300 feet down.

You don't need a floaty paddes bcd. Drysuits are great, expensive but if you are warm you will dive more. 30 minute dives will eventually give way to 45 then 60 then 90 minute dives. So a drysuit is a great investment. You also need to take a drysuit lesson. There is more to it than just putting it on. Course is short and can be done in a day.

Last of all, ask yourself this question.....What is in it for a dive shop to put together a "package". What is their motoviation? How does it benefit them to put a package together? They are in business and doing what is in their interest to generate sales and more profit. Why not just buy what you want a little at a time.

 

[Jim Rohrer]

Thank you all for the very detailed replies! I'll try to answer questions and ask a few more of my own, if you don't mind.

Was all your training in a jacket BC?

It was. We used ScubaPro Glide Pro BC's. It was OK, but it felt like it was squeezing me too much around the midsection and shoulders when inflated, which leads me to think a back-inflate style would be better for me. I tried a few on this past weekend and liked having less material wrapped around me.

So everyone seems to be unanimous on the BP/W setup. However, does anyone have some kind of buying guide for BP/W's? Being as modular as they are, it's a bit intimidating having to research every little thing, instead of a nice, easy to use BC. I'm a total geek by nature, so I don't mind doing my research, but I'm not even sure where to start looking for information on what to buy and what not to buy. Neither of the local dive shops seem to cater much to tech diving, so I have yet to see a BP/W setup in their stores.

That's all my coffee-deprived brain can think of so far this morning.

Thanks again for all the advice!

 

[Jim Lapenta]

And that's the beauty of a BPW. It is 5 main components. The plate, the wing, the harness, the cam bands, and if necessary a single tank adapter.

For single tank dives, using a drysuit especially, the plate most often recommended is a steel one. Helps get weight off your belt and over the lungs where it's needed.

The wing should be in the 30-35 lb range for single tanks. Show up in Columbus in March and I'll show you a couple of them and explain the reason for that amount of lift recommendation.

I and many others on here will also recommend a simple one piece harness. You can get them with buckles and quick releases but they are not really necessary. The one piece harness you adjust to fit you. You don't have to try and fit into someone else's idea of what size you are. Your rig is fitted to you. And it fits the same way every time once you have it set up. You put the drings where they work best for you. Come to the show and I'll show you how it takes about 5 minutes to do a basic fit to your body.

Cam bands are cam bands. Usually there are two with either plastic or steel buckles.

Single tank adapter is required with some wing and plate combos to hold the cam bands as the plate may not have slots cut for them. And some wings don't have a way to control or minimize roll. Others like HOG and DSS use integrated physical means of holding the tank parallel with the plate and do not require one.

BPW's are also usually less expensive than many BC's and in fact may have less of a profit margin on them. Hence the reason many shops don't push them. You do know that the mark up on some BC's is as much or more than 100% right. The extra padding, useless d rings, poorly designed pockets, and lots of buckles and releases add to the cost with little real benefit in the water.

You are also close enough that if you got one from me included in the price would be either a pool session to help you set it up and/or an open water dive to get you properly fitted and weighted out.