Much of my message you are misunderstanding or are confusing with other mentioned items.
FIRST:
I brought up the discussion on doubles and manifolds and "legitimate reasons why most cave and technical diving manuals dont contain much visual instruction" in response to your posting saying "another instructor who thinks that students are complete idiots who can't possible handle the "complexities""etc.
It was not in response to why the Hogarthian system isnt taught to OW divers. As i mentioned in my response i am a firm believe that it should be taught and many other technical/cave diving techniques should be incorporated in recreational diving.
But, my response is based more toward those basic open water divers who complain about how they cant dive a particular wreck or do a particular style of diving because of their inadequate training and experience. Like an open water diver, who is not trained in cave diving, who wants to do cave diving without paying for the extra training.
So i thought your statement was refering to this, another instructor who feels open water divers arent capable of doing cave dive or technical wreck dive without training first.
Misunderstanding on both our parts there.
SECOND:
With regard to your thread about "You touched on it earlier in a previous post that you believe that there are far too many alternate air configurations out there and that in an emergency someone is just going to grab your primary anyhow so why not just keep a pony on-hand. Frankly, your logic escapes me on multiple levels."
This is another misunderstanding. I said nothing about going with the pony over an octopus. I indicated to go with both an octo and a pony. If a recreational diver has an octo there isnt anything bad about him also carrying a pony bottle.
Sure it might cost him alittle money. But, it gives some sort of redundancy for the single valve outlet and single source of gas.
But, my simple example of being in a wreck and having to switch to either a pony with only 13cu (LESS GAS) or an octo from an 80cu tank (MUCH MORE GAS) was to stress for him to pick the octo over the pony. Stressing would you want more or less gas if you had to switch.
THIRD:
Again place emphasis not on the dive buddy who is familiar with your setup. Instead think about the uninformed passerbye diver who runs out of gas and swam a great distance to reach you and is unfamiliar with your setup.
What is that person going to do? Studies show he is more times than not going to reach for and grab the regulator from your mouth. This may happen without you being warned or given the out of air sign and it may happen without you expecting it.
This is why in the Hogarthian system the backup regulator is designed more for your backup instead of for someone who is out of air. You donate the primary reg from your mouth and you switch to the backup. which is strapped around your neck making it easy to place in your mouth without using your hands.
FOURTH:
Im not dissing the Buddy System and the value it has for divers.
Dont get me wrong i think the buddy system is excellent and it was developed by the Navy and still used by SEALS/UDT for a reason.
When i first learned the buddy system i was taught to have a 6ft tandum line attached between me and him. Just as the navy still practices. Over time the teachings changed to being at a 6ft distance with no line, to arms reach of each other etc.
But, the buddy system differs among some agencies. Especially when comparing foreign agencies with US agencies.
But, getting back to how this all got looped in to the discussion between us.
Your buddy is the least of your worries underwater. Like you said he should know your equipment setup and configuration etc. Great!!!!
But, not so great for every other diver on that wreck who doesnt know your equipment configuration!
Not every diver is going to know you have an octopus tucked away in your right pocket or an octo located on your LP inflator hose. Hell, 20yrs ago there was a significant change the diver wouldnt even have an octopus at all. In some cases, especially in a foreign country, this may still be the case.
But, what ever diver knows is that the other diver MUST has something in their mouth (unless a full face mask) to breathe gas.
This is why going for the regulator in the divers mouth tends to be so common in diving emergencies.
FIFTH:
I know your gonna say something like "well if i practice the buddy system then i will only need to share air with him and i know his equipment configuation so i dont have to worry about another diver who doesnt have a setup i understand".
True, if you use the buddy system well enough you might not. But, sometimes you might be seperated from your buddy and out of gas and may have to rely on these other divers. And who knows you migth have to breathe from a single regulator.
SIXTH:
I know anyone coming from a primarily recreational diving organization will disagree.
But, people do solo dive and it is on the rise. As i indicated a few agencies who have anticipated this change have developed a C-card in hopes of dive charters allowing the diver to dive solo if they wish. There are several other organizations currently working on similiar cards and many technical organizations have accepted this practice for some time.
Eventually you will start to see dive charter operations change too. In which they wont have a dive master to carry your gear, setup your equipment for you, act as an underwater tour guide or make you dive with a dive master if you dont have a dive buddy.
Instead you will see more self-service dive charters who only provide you with transportation to and from the dive site and emergency surface support.
I see this exact business model being used by many tech charters and a handful of recreational charters i have used over the last 4yrs.
