Newb Equipment List - I have seen the light (horror?)

[wrusty33]

Hi to all, a newbie here. I was on vacation in Hurghada, Egypt last week and did an introductory dive in the Red Sea and am now a convert to that freedom and beauty. The coral reefs are something else !!! I am now looking to get certified and take in the beauty of the Red Sea area as well as the Mediterranean. Now to that end, while on the introductory dive, I witnessed two separate incidences where hoses burst when the first stage reg was opened. Not sure if lp or hp, as at that time did not know the difference, but I thought to myself that cannot be good and shouldn't happen. In the comment card I noted the burst hoses and told them my sense of their maintenance and safety precautions was not good. Well that led me to 1) looking for equipment because I want my own equipment and 2) the one responsible for my safety is me. I would never use resort DS equipment again. Ok so this is the equipment list I have thus far and would like for you to comment on it. Right now I can see myself diving once or twice a month at Sharm El Sheikh, Hurghada, Al Gouna, etc Red Sea reef diving. Nothing extreme.

Aqualung Titan LX - 1st and 2nd stage 300 USD
Aqualung Titan LX Octo 110 USD
Scubapro Seahawk BC 365 USD
Suunto Vyper Wrist Computer 260 USD
Subgear XP10 Computer Console 310 USD for redundancy.... w/o redundancy just a SPG
Suunto SK7 Arm Compass 70 USD

So that is a little over 1400 USD

What do you think?

 

[Fishpie]

Good choices.
If you believe you need a redundant computer why not get both the same.

 

[tracydr]

I'm so jealous of your local training dives! If you ever want something exotic, come visit Lake Pleasant in Arizona.
Good Luck with your training and enjoy!

 

[wrusty33]

There seems to be two opinions on redundant computers.

1. same algorithms
2. different algorithms

The two I selected were based on different algorithms, quality, and price. I prescribe (I think but let me get a bit more experience) to using two different algorithms and choosing the most conservative if need be.

---------- Post Merged at 04:52 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 03:29 PM ----------

Thank you Dr Tracy for the good luck. I guess you could say I will be spoiled by my location However, there are things like revolutions that you have to put up with

 

[Colliam7]

What do you think?

VERY nice starting selection, at what appears to be a very nice total price.

I especially like the fact that you are going with a wrist-mounted compass and computer. I commend you for going with identical primary and alternate second stages.

I am not entirely clear on the console comments. As a recreational diver I would suggest you would do well with just a SPG, and use your computer for depth and time. If you want a redundant computer, that's your choice. I dive with two myself, even when doing non-deco dives, but that is more a matter of standardization, not necessity. In any event, you will enjoy the gear you have selected.

. while on the introductory dive, I witnessed two separate incidences where hoses burst when the first stage reg was opened. Not sure if lp or hp, as at that time did not know the difference, but I thought to myself that cannot be good and shouldn't happen.

I am a little curious about this. By 'burst' do you mean literally split open, or merely starting leaking vigourously (and noisily)? Hoses in constant use in resort areas will periodically fail. I am not sure that is a reflection of poor maintenance as much as intensive use, or possibly a reluctance of the resort to replace hoses when they first start showing signs of small leaks. But, hoses will fail even with personal gear. A 10 y.o. HP hose on my singles reg finally starting bubbling last year on a dive in Bonaire, for example, and I replaced it while I was down there. I have replaced several LP hoses (inflator and second stage) over the years because of leaks that were evident either u/w from bubbles, or on the surface from noise.

 

[wrusty33]

Split open !!! One of the tourists on the intro dive trip was in the water when the second incident happened, and would not dive again. The first incident was with instructor gear. Being new to diving I don't know about maintenance practices, replacement times, etc. However, being an engineer, it gives one pause that maintenance practices, replacement of parts, QA/QC of hoses, etc may not be quite right. I understand a resort DS having to balance revenue and costs, but two incidences in one day is a good indication something may be wrong.

 

[HenrikBP]

Just a thought on the "back-up" computer: if you go with 2 wrist computers, you can have one on each wrist. That way, if one hand is busy venting etc. you can still keep an eye on depth.

Put a regular brass-and-glass SPG on the HP hose, and clip it off at your hip.

I've been using a Vyper for ~4 years now, and really like it. Nice big display and numbers. It has a stopwatch function as well, which I like. The one downside - the back-light for night dives, or dark dives, is not that great. Workable, but not great. Granted, my other "computer" is a Liquivision Xen, so it's not at all a fair comparison

As others have mentioned. There is something to be said for having 2 computers running the same algorithm.

 

[TSandM]

If you have two different algorithms on your computer, how will you know which one is wrong, if one is not working properly?

I'd recommend two of the same model, and I hate consoles. Otherwise, I think you've made a pretty good section of gear.

 

[wedivebc]

If you have two different algorithms on your computer, how will you know which one is wrong, if one is not working properly?

I'd recommend two of the same model, and I hate consoles. Otherwise, I think you've made a pretty good section of gear.

Actually neither computer is wrong or more likely both computers are wrong.

I recently dove with a person using a VR3. I use a Shearwater which was in VPM mode for that dive. We decided to see what effect it would have following the most conservative or actually the longest stop. It turned out the VR3 Pyle stops increased my overall time to surface by about 15 minutes. I was frozen through due to a leaking drysuit when my computer cleared but the extra 15 minutes was shear misery.

Bottom line, get the same algorithm, some algorithms don't compliment others.

 

[wrusty33]

Noted guys concerning computer redundancy and many thanks for the help and comments. This conversation on computers and algorithms brings several questions to mind.

1) I assume the different algorithms were developed from different sets of data that included physical/environmental i.e. depth, density hence pressure, temperature, exposure time, ascent rate, etc of a different population of divers and medical data before, during and after testing. Is this correct.

2) If we all reacted the same to the elements of the testing, then there should be no difference in algorithms. However, as you guys have pointed out there are differences in the algorithms. Would you call those differences substantial?

3) If my logic so far is correct (and please correct me if I am wrong) then the difference in the algorithms implies different control groups of divers behaved differently physically and medically to the same test conditions.

4) If point 3 is indeed the case, how do you know which algorithm is best suited for you? If you use one algorithm, are you rolling the dice? Extreme and unlikely because certainly the algorithms are conservative. If you have two algorithms, your chances of finding the right algorithm for you and your body are greater. It may be one or the other or something in between, but you have some direction.

Hope all of that made sense and I certainly enjoy the dialog and the learning experience. Thanks again.

Russell