New student "gear packages"

[Jaksonbrown]

Im not sure if it is true in all locations, but here in the Seattle area, most new students are talked into a bulk package when they begin their training to get certified. It usually includes fins, mask, snorkel, booties and a hood. At least here in the PNW anyway. I was new to cold water diving and got certified in Seattle with my wife and my 14yr old son. Not wanting to scrimp on cheap equipment, I had the dive shop set us up with their "best" equipment. Now three years later, I am not using a single piece of the original equipment I was sold, and furthermore... know now that it is all pretty much crappy entry level equipment. You know.. the twin jet split fins, the BCD, snorkel, 7mm wetsuit, etc. Why is it that when new students are introduced to the gear, they are not offered any BPW set ups? Turtle style fins? Drysuits are not encouraged and labeled "not necessary"
I have thousands of dollars of gear just sitting in my garage that I bought for us that I have replaced with what is considered "standard issue" cold water gear around here. That being the BPW, drysuits, 7mm hoods, loose the snorkel, Turtle or Jet style fins and dry gloves.
Sure would have been nice to have been introduced to this gear up front and given a real picture of what kind of Cold water gear I would be wanting if I pursued the sport further instead of having to buy everything twice. I guess a light should have gone on when I noticed that not one of my instructors was using the same gear they had just sold us.

Anyone else experience this?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Im not sure if it is true in all locations, but here in the Seattle area, most new students are talked into a bulk package when they begin their training to get certified. It usually includes fins, mask, snorkel, booties and a hood. At least here in the PNW anyway. I was new to cold water diving and got certified in Seattle with my wife and my 14yr old son. Not wanting to scrimp on cheap equipment, I had the dive shop set us up with their "best" equipment. Now three years later, I am not using a single piece of the original equipment I was sold, and furthermore... know now that it is all pretty much crappy entry level equipment. You know.. the twin jet split fins, the BCD, snorkel, 7mm wetsuit, etc. Why is it that when new students are introduced to the gear, they are not offered any BPW set ups? Turtle style fins? Drysuits are not encouraged and labeled "not necessary"
I have thousands of dollars of gear just sitting in my garage that I bought for us that I have replaced with what is considered "standard issue" cold water gear around here. That being the BPW, drysuits, 7mm hoods, loose the snorkel, Turtle or Jet style fins and dry gloves.
Sure would have been nice to have been introduced to this gear up front and given a real picture of what kind of Cold water gear I would be wanting if I pursued the sport further instead of having to buy everything twice. I guess a light should have gone on when I noticed that not one of my instructors was using the same gear they had just sold us.

Anyone else experience this?

It's because dive shops need to make their money selling you expensive equipment ... in part to make up for that cheap OW class that got you in the store to begin with.

But to answer your question ... our consortium of independent instructors does teach OW classes in BP/W. We do sell packages of "personal" gear that includes blade fins ... and if you choose to you can get Jet style fins with spring straps. We teach in the same gear we wear for personal diving.

And, in fact, we can set our students up with mask/fins/snorkel/booties/gloves made by HOG/EDGE for about the same price you paid for just those fancy split fins ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[SubMariner]

Im not sure if it is true in all locations, but here in the Seattle area, most new students are talked into a bulk package when they begin their training to get certified. It usually includes fins, mask, snorkel, booties and a hood. At least here in the PNW anyway. I was new to cold water diving and got certified in Seattle with my wife and my 14yr old son. Not wanting to scrimp on cheap equipment, I had the dive shop set us up with their "best" equipment. Now three years later, I am not using a single piece of the original equipment I was sold, and furthermore... know now that it is all pretty much crappy entry level equipment. You know.. the twin jet split fins, the BCD, snorkel, 7mm wetsuit, etc. Why is it that when new students are introduced to the gear, they are not offered any BPW set ups? Turtle style fins? Drysuits are not encouraged and labeled "not necessary"
I have thousands of dollars of gear just sitting in my garage that I bought for us that I have replaced with what is considered "standard issue" cold water gear around here. That being the BPW, drysuits, 7mm hoods, loose the snorkel, Turtle or Jet style fins and dry gloves.
Sure would have been nice to have been introduced to this gear up front and given a real picture of what kind of Cold water gear I would be wanting if I pursued the sport further instead of having to buy everything twice. I guess a light should have gone on when I noticed that not one of my instructors was using the same gear they had just sold us.

Anyone else experience this?

To be honest, a lot of the gear choices you label as "musts" are actually personal preference. For example, types of fins. Not everyone wants turtles or jet fins. Likewise a BPW.

The big factor in this is cost: the percentage of divers who keep diving LOCALLY after they are certified is unfortunately a fraction of those who either give up on the sport, or only do it on vacation. So they really don't want to invest big bucks in cold water gear. Plus what you "know" about gear initially is a fraction of what you "know" later on in your dive career. Almost every diver winds up "trading up" pieces of gear once they become more experienced and know what they want to do when they dive.

However, the one thing I agree on you about is a drysuit. Divers who live in temperate climates should really be looking at that as exposure protection rather than 5-7mm of neoprene. Plus putting it into the OW course doesn't require a lot of extra work (an extra confined water session).

 

[atrawick]

Same here! Mask,Fins,Snorkel,Booties,Gloves and a bag to put it in. You can choose what mask,fins etc you want. Then you got the other packages,BCD & Regs. I really like to support the local DS. Most of the you can find new for half the price.

 

[TSandM]

Well, I have to say that nothing I bought in my "student package" was cheap junk (nor was any of it cheap!) I used the mask for a long time, until I found one that fit better. I ditched the snorkel immediately, but that would have happened no matter what I bought -- and they had to require it, because it's in the standards. I no longer use wet gloves, but I still use the wet suit booties I bought for tropical diving. The fins I bought were splits, and I agree with you that switching to blade fins was an improvement -- but a lot of people LIKE split fins (shudder) and the folks in the shop do, and dive them, so they didn't steer me wrong by their own lights.

I was encouraged into a dry suit during certification and sold one immediately afterwards, which I dove for several years and which is still in use. It WAS a cheap dry suit; it was also all the dry suit I would have sprung for at the time. It was, and is, reasonably serviceable.

I did replace my BC and my fins within six months, and ditched the snorkel. But most of what I bought I still have. Maybe I got better advice?

 

[spt29970]

That's funny, I was thinking that my "student" dive package held up pretty well. I bought it in 1983. I used the snorkel for a few years until I decided I hated it getting caught in the kelp. Then I relegated it to snorkeling (which in my opinion is where it belongs). The hood I used for about 20 years, which was only about 10 years longer than I should have. When diving wet, I now use a hooded vest, which would have been a much better initial purchase. Of course when doing boat dives I use my drysuit, but I still use a wetsuit for shore diving.

I used my Dacor mask for years, and it is still in great shape, although I transitioned to a lower volume frameless mask which works better for photography. I can't get my hands in my old 7mm gloves so I have given them to my wife who still uses them.

Finally I used my "Mares Power Plana" paddle fins until I lost one in the surf about 5 or 6 years ago. I replaced them with a set of Twin Jets, which I love. I go WAY faster with my Twin Jets than I ever did with my paddles and I almost never cramp up. It made me wonder why I suffered with paddles for so long.

My BCD, wasn't part of my original package. It is a SeaQuest Balance. It fits me like a glove, travels well, and with it I have pinpoint buoyancy and trim. I recently had some stitching repaired and the Velcro replaced, but I think it is doing great with around 700 dives on it, the majority of which were in cold water. It probably has at least another 500 left in it.

In my observation, people grow and change their preferences and needs, but I don't see dive shops foisting off low quality gear on unsuspecting divers. The shops around here (in Santa Barbara) sell gear that is appropriate for most divers. On the other hand I sometimes have to smile when I see people change gear every few years because it got "old" or because someone on the internet convinced them that "real divers" dive with a different gear configuration. Personally I think people should spend less time obsessing over gear configurations and spend more time diving.

 

[spt29970]

One last comment is regarding learning to dive with a Drysuit. Personally I love my drysuit, but I think it is worthwhile learning to dive wet, even in cold water. Here are a few reasons.

* Drysuits are substantially more expensive than wetsuits, both initially, and in terms of maintenance. Any shop that tried to convince people to start dry would be accused of "pressuring people" to buy expensive gear to line their own pockets.

* The additional cost would scare away many prospective divers. As a previous poster noted, few people who learn to dive are still doing it a few years later. Starting with a more expensive package would just mean more money down the drain. Although the additional comfort of diving dry might retain more people.

* Most new cold water divers struggle with buoyancy control. Learning dry just makes this harder. Adding a drysuit after basic skills have been mastered makes learning drysuit specific skills easier. Moreover an out of control ascent with a drysuit is much more difficult to recover from than with a wetsuit. I don't have the stats, but I would be willing to bet that diving wet is safer, especially for novices.

* Wetsuits are more foolproof. There are no valves to maintain and no seals to care for. Scraping your knee on a rock won't kill your wetsuit.

Don't get me wrong. I love my drysuit, and the additional comfort of a diving dry might keep more people diving longer, but I just don't see recommending all beginners starting dry. Lastly, I dive a lot in the Channel Islands, where the water temps are typically between 50-60, so it isn't that much different than the PNW

 

[Dyno Bill]

When I started I bought a complete used package from a person I worked with. It was all Scuba Pro and to be honest I still have all of the original stuff. I have 2 Mk 5 regs and my wife has one of her own. I did buy a wetsuit that fit and probably have between 6 and 10 in the closet. I have given a few away and havn't counted for a while. Never dove a dry suit but I do have a couple of one piece suits that I use exclusively. I aquired a house in Union washington on the Hood so if I'm still at it when I move I may have to get a dry suit. I wore more gear out than I can imagine would have happened. I have also to admit I never saw a need to dive a split fin, I do enjoy my long blades for freediving though.
Bill

 

[a22shady]

No offense to the shop but in my opinon shops that do that are Sh*ty shops. they atre the ones who say this gear is good and sell it to you. They don't take the time to sit thoroughly explain the gear/configurations and what use's it would serve. That is one thing I am happy about with the LDS i trained at.

The first thing when we started to talk about gear they wanted to know our interest, where we were looking to go what we might want to do. Where we would we be diving etc. I learned this by qualifying variuos shops before I decided to train there. We spent probably a good hour on BC choices alone. Showing us all ranges of BC's from Traditonal Jackets and why they recomend Us going with atleast a Back inflate. And then into the BP/W systems which they had and why they recomeded these more so overall even for the recreational diver. (Diverite/Halcyon) And it when on like this for the rest of the gear.

I then took it upon myself to compile a list of what I wanted and price I wanted to pay and got the deal done. I have had my equipment going on 2 years and still use it to this day and I am as happy as I was day 1.

 

[Dyno Bill]

No offense to the shop but in my opinon shops that do that are Sh*ty shops. they atre the ones who say this gear is good and sell it to you. They don't take the time to sit thoroughly explain the gear/configurations and what use's it would serve. That is one thing I am happy about with the LDS i trained at.

The first thing when we started to talk about gear they wanted to know our interest, where we were looking to go what we might want to do. Where we would we be diving etc. I learned this by qualifying variuos shops before I decided to train there. We spent probably a good hour on BC choices alone. Showing us all ranges of BC's from Traditonal Jackets and why they recomend Us going with atleast a Back inflate. And then into the BP/W systems which they had and why they recomeded these more so overall even for the recreational diver. (Diverite/Halcyon) And it when on like this for the rest of the gear.

I then took it upon myself to compile a list of what I wanted and price I wanted to pay and got the deal done. I have had my equipment going on 2 years and still use it to this day and I am as happy as I was day 1.

I don't disagree at all with your conclusions about the shop mentioned. You stated the advice you received from your shop, did they have a sampling of the different styles of BC and allow the students to try them to see what seemed to suit the different divers or did they have the bp/w in stock and start you out with them from the start? Basic gear or personal gear is usually required by a shop and of course they would like you to buy it from them as thats where the class profit lies. They would starve if the only thing they did was teach basic scuba. A lot of people recommend technical BC's to people that have no need for them.
Bill