New Red Sea tragedy and everlasting stupid bargain of power

[Dadvocate]

Last year…oops two years ago… I posted a thread about a German couple doing exactly that kind of diving near Pescador Island in Moalbol.

Here it is:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/near-misses-lessons-learned/196171-sehr-tief-man.html

If what others told me then is true, the practice is quite common with European divers. This German couple thought nothing of it at the time.

I’m still not sure about the safety to be honest, other than to say that this kind of diving is absolutely not for me.

Cheers!

 

[Rhone Man]

That other thread that Dadvocate linked to was interesting. The more I read about European divers, the more they seem to push boundaries to me. I have no problems with 'deep air' diving in principle for experienced divers (North Atlantic wreck divers did it for years before trimix), but you need the gas reserves and preferably a deco mix (although maybe not for 5-7 minutes), and I wouldn't like "just relying on a computer".

By curious coincidence I read an article last night about O2 toxicity that said that for many years European divers dived with ppO2 sometimes as high as 1.9 ATA, way above what is now regarded as the safe limit (although the article used this to illustrate that there seem to have been remarkably few incidents resulting).

Sorry, I'll stop hijacking the thread now.

 

[svs]

60m on air ?? How short is the dive going to be? 10 seconds?? I'm afraid I totally disagree with you when you say that is 'not that unreasonable'. If that's not unreasonable then I don't know what is.

On navy tables you have 5 min from the start of descent to the start of ascent for 60m (~200ft) dive. You can spent 2-3 min on descent, 2-3 min to look around and then 8-10 min for relaxed ascent. Recreational computer will shave a minute or two from this time but still allows it as no deco dive (probably with some unhappy beeps). I do agree that such dive will be pretty pointless on 60m deep wreck. But for the shore dive along coral covered drop off it can make a nice dive. And if your have decent air consumption you can spent 30-60 min at the end of the dive on a shallow part of the reef.

 

[orange_diver]

On navy tables you have 5 min from the start of descent to the start of ascent for 60m (~200ft) dive. You can spent 2-3 min on descent, 2-3 min to look around and then 8-10 min for relaxed ascent. Recreational computer will shave a minute or two from this time but still allows it as no deco dive (probably with some unhappy beeps). I do agree that such dive will be pretty pointless on 60m deep wreck. But for the shore dive along coral covered drop off it can make a nice dive. And if your have decent air consumption you can spent 30-60 min at the end of the dive on a shallow part of the reef.

and pray that nothing goes wrong at 60m. 2-3 mins isn't a whole lot of time.

 

[cerich]

I can't comment on Red Sea politics, but I have heard four stories of people diving to 100m on air.

One was Gary Gentile, and he survived. One was Sheck Exley and he was survived. Both are (or were) famous and vastly experienced technical divers.

One was a pair of dive instructors in Cayman who tried to "bounce" to 100m and back for kicks. They were never seen again and the bodies were never recovered. This post is the fourth.

Unless you are a Gary Gentile or a Sheck Exley, don't do it.

More Cayman instructors have done it and lived than not...however it is a stupid, STUPID thing to do.(and thank God the deep air among Cayman Instructors has slowed quite a bit since I was a cayman Instructor)

That being said, this thread does provide interesting insight into cultural differences and how they can impact even something like diving.

 

[austriandiveress]

I am so interested to see the issue of European vs. American diving norms mentioned here, even though off topic. I am american, but have only dived in Europe, so for me the "european way" (by that I mean diving deeper on one tank than seems to be common in the States) is what I am used to, what I see going on all around me and what is considered "normal" among the many divers I have met in the past 3 years.
I have been fascinated and rather uncomfortable to have my eyes opened here on SB, to learn from you all that this isnt necessarily the best way to do things: the couple in "sehr tief, man" sounds all too familiar to me. (ahem...)

 

[Dadvocate]

I’d like to add one last bit on the German couple and then I promise to steer clear of a further hijack.

As some have noted already, a dive of this depth requires a quick descent to maximize bottom time at depth.

The two Germans achieved this by adding extra weight. I noticed on the second day at Pescador Island that the two of them were taking some of the extra weights that were on the boat. They stuffed their integrated pouches and then put more weights into their pockets. This certainly got them to depth quickly, as I watched them shoot passed me at 28 meters. I suppose makes some sense given the table limitations and what they were trying to achieve.

But I am also aware that major changes in weight lead to more air consumption for many divers. With one tank this can be even trickier.

I am not sure how much that factors into this practice, but I imagine it does.

Cheers!

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I can't comment on Red Sea politics, but I have heard four stories of people diving to 100m on air.

One was Gary Gentile, and he survived. One was Sheck Exley and he was survived. Both are (or were) famous and vastly experienced technical divers.

One was a pair of dive instructors in Cayman who tried to "bounce" to 100m and back for kicks. They were never seen again and the bodies were never recovered. This post is the fourth.

Unless you are a Gary Gentile or a Sheck Exley, don't do it.

The Hawaii O'hana had a popular thread on a successful 100m single air tank dive, just 8 months ago (ok, actually 93m).

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/hawaii-ohana/229983-300-ft-dive-who.html

Seems in the past year or so there was also a "Basic" thread about recreational guided dives to 250' + where only the Mexican(?) guide had more than a single tank, but I can't seem to come up with the proper search terms.

 

[escapeartist]

This is a tragic story. I'm so sorry to hear what's happened and my prayers are with the families.

 

[RAD Diver]

IÃÅ like to add one last bit on the German couple and then I promise to steer clear of a further hijack.

As some have noted already, a dive of this depth requires a quick descent to maximize bottom time at depth.

The two Germans achieved this by adding extra weight. I noticed on the second day at Pescador Island that the two of them were taking some of the extra weights that were on the boat. They stuffed their integrated pouches and then put more weights into their pockets. This certainly got them to depth quickly, as I watched them shoot passed me at 28 meters. I suppose makes some sense given the table limitations and what they were trying to achieve.

But I am also aware that major changes in weight lead to more air consumption for many divers. With one tank this can be even trickier.

I am not sure how much that factors into this practice, but I imagine it does.

Cheers!

I might also note that it has been suggested that descending too quick also has some serious side effects. The quick change in pressure on ones body effects how bubbles are formed. Remember tables are based on a specific dive parameter which includes a descent rate.
I will try to find the article & post it in a different thread.