new here.. looking for advice on my first gear selection plz!

[NubaScoob]

hey everyone I am new here and new to scuba as the username implies I am in the "middle" of my NAUI OW cert right now (all pool and bookwork is done and first dive but still have 1 checkout dive to do, weather down here was less than optimal and then there was the holidays). I am planning to get my gear right away as I liked my diving experiences thus far and plan to expand to wreck diving and spearfishing further into the future (not anytime soon though). So I live in Ft Myers Florida, and just happen to be lucky enough to have Joe Diver America a few miles away. I have been there twice already to get my initial gear, fins, mask, snorkel, wesuit and now I am ready to take the plunge on the rest of the gear. The good thing is since they are local I can go pick up my gear and try it on in person. I am thinking about getting this package from them: Aeris EX 100 Weight Integrated Scuba Gear Package - JoeDiverAmerica.com. For the guage options I am planning to sub in the optional Oceanic Veo 180 NavCon 3 guage console. I know that personal preference is always a factor and fit and confort are important as well as price and think that this package will offer a good median of these but don't know enough about what I am talking about to me sure. so weigh in and let me know!!

Anthony

 

[buddhasummer]

Don't mean to rain on your parade but would recommend NOT buying gear just yet at least not until you've done some more diving. I say this for three reasons, to make sure you actually really like diving, to have some time to check out what other gear/ equipment options there are and to find out what type of diving you like or would like to move into. Most divers including myself have bought and replaced gear more than once, certainly in my case because I bought too soon having no idea what was what and bought what my LSD sold/recomended. The gear your looking at I'm not familiar with but I'm sure it would be adequate for rec ow diving, I personally wouldn't buy it as I prefer bp/w over bcs (thats a hole other thread)I like both my primary and secondary 2nd stages to be the same i.e. equal breathing performance (+ease of servicing) I like wrist mounted computers and simple brass and glass SPG. This is only my opinion and my preference, you will get many different ones here on SB. I would recommend you do some research and reading about different equipment options on this forum and if possible talk to other divers. LDS generally recommend what ever it is they sell which may be great but maybe not, often but not always its more about them than you. I'm happy to assist further if you wish you can PM me. Good luck with the rest of your course and welcome to SB.

 

[Colliam7]

I know that personal preference is always a factor and fit and confort are important as well as price and think that this package will offer a good median of these but don't know enough about what I am talking about to me sure. so weigh in and let me know!!

The package you have selected is fully functional - a jacket BCD, weight-integrated, with a functional regulator. If this package was given to me, and it was my only rig, would I dive with it? Absolutely. Would I buy it. Absolutely not. Before saying anything else, I will echo just what you said - 'I know that personal preference is always a factor'. So, please understand that what i say reflects my personal preference, that preference has evolved over 10 years and 600 dives, and it is mine, not necessarily yours. That it is mine doesn't make the preference 'right', only that it reflects what is right for me. It just so happens that many of the preferences already expressed by buddhasummer mirror mine, and I will echo some of the previous comments.

. . . would recommend NOT buying gear just yet at least not until you've done some more diving.

Fully agree. It would be better to try some different types of equipment (not brands, per se, but styles) before taking the purchasing plunge. There IS something exciting about owning your own gear, about putting YOUR new gear on and hopping in the water with it the first time. But, if you could forestall that gratification for just a few months, you might find the wait is worth it.

I prefer bp/w over bcs (thats a hole other thread)I like both my primary and secondary 2nd stages to be the same i.e. equal breathing performance (+ease of servicing) I like wrist mounted computers and simple brass and glass SPG.

I have a jacket BCD which I use as a pool BCD, and as an OW check-out BCD. Perfectly fine unit, gets the job done, good buoyancy and trim characteristics. But, for personal recreational diving, I started with a weight-integrated, back-inflate (rather than jacket) BCD - a Zeagle Ranger. Great BCD, that now sites in a closet unused, since I moved to a backplate/wing. Like buddhasummer, I am not trying to stumulate a BP/W debate, just telling you what I use.

I would encourage you to try a back-inflate BCD before buying - whether a soft BCD like a Zeagle Express, or a 'hard' BCD like a BP/W, doesn't matter. Just try a back-inflate before you go jacket. Make sure it is a back-inflate with a crotch strap. I find I have better trim underwater in a back-inflate, I have a little more secure fit at the surface with a crotch strap. I personally like a stainless steel backplate because it puts weight where I want it - not in pockets on my BCD, not all on my waist, but on my upper body, where the tank and regulator are,

I would encourage you NOT to go weight-integrated. If you can use a weight-belt, do so, at least at first.

I would encourage you to go with two second stages that are the same. I prefer to be sure that my buddy has the same second stage I do, I like the fact that they are interchangeable, and that the service kits are the same.

I would encourage you NOT to spend the extra money on a 3-gauge console. In fact, I would encourage you NOT to use a console at all. A wrist-mounted depth gauge / computer, coupled with a simple pressure gauge on a HP hose is more streamlined. For a compass, a variety of options are available, including wrist-mounted units, or a even compass on a retractor that clips to a chest strap. Either are functional.

If you peruse many threads on SB, you will find more than a few stories of people who bought equipment as new divers, that they later found (sooner, rather than later) was not what they really wanted, and which was ultimately replaced. You may, after trying several different styles of equipment, come back to the exact package you are looking at now (I am skeptical that will be the case, but it is possible). If so, you will then purchase with confidence, knowing it is exactly what you want. But, you also may not come back to it and select other equipment instead, and purchase what you want, happy that you did not have to buy twice, like too many newer divers before you.

 

[herman]

Welcome to the board and diving.
My perspective is somewhat different than budda and Colliam (whom I dive with from time to time and DM for him on occasion) and like you said, it's mostly personal preference. Like Colliam7, I dive a Varity of BCs depending on the situation, an old jacket BC in the pool with students, one of a couple of different back inflates when doing OW or fun diving and if the dive permits, just an old school back plate with no wing. I can hold perfect trim and have dead on buoyancy control in any of them, a good diver can dive any BC. I like them all and rather than use 1 BC I prefer to dive the one that best suits my needs at the time. I am one of the few who tried a BP/wing and was not impressed.....or at least will admit it. They work fine but I don't see the big deal, a back inflate does just as well although I do prefer back inflates to jacket types for most diving. For me a steel BP is a bad choice because it overweights me for any warm water diving I do, by almost 6 lbs if I am diving warm fresh water. I can always add weight to a weight belt but if the BC is inherently more negative than I need, it's a bad choice. Same goes for steel tanks, I can’t use them for the same reason. Plus I travel a good bit, 4 or 5 extra pounds in my luggage is something I can do without. Your results will vary but it's something to keep in mind.
Our choice of gauges and location is somewhat different as well. I prefer my computer on my wrist but if I also like a 3 gauge console at the same time. It keeps my compass where I can find it without cluttering up my arms and I like to keep an analog depth gauge on my console for back up.....I have had 3 computers die underwater but never lost analog gauge yet.
As for gear brands, they are a matter of personal choice as well, pretty much any of the major brands make very good equipment. Find a good shop near you that has a good reg tech and buy the brand he services, a good tech is more important that the reg brand IMO. I would stick to one of the major brands for several reasons. First off, they are more likely to be around 5 or 10 years from now and still have parts for your reg. A good dive reg will last the diving lifetime of several divers so parts and service are important…my favorite reg is almost as old as Colliam7 . In addition, if you travel with your reg, the major brands tend to be easier to find service for in the event you need service when you travel. Don’t buy a reg based on price or advertising BS. The mid range regs of any of the major brands are fine and the real performance different between any of them is so small only a machine can detect the difference. Same goes for the top of the line regs, their performance is most often the same as the mid range regs, you are paying for pretty bling and questionably useful features. Fact is, if you look carefully at the mid and high end regs of the same brand you will find they use the same internal design and parts.
Gear is mostly a personal choice, dive for a while, renting and if possible borrowing different styles of gear to see what YOU prefer, after all , that is what really matters.

 

[Bob DBF]

First of all listen to herman.

Second, as much as you want to go out and grab everything, now is the time to slow down and make your purchace count. I don't know about you but, money is not easy for me to come by so I take my time to check out gear and find what works for me.

Lastly, in Florida there is a lot of good used gear that can be picked up reasonably and recycled later if it does not fit your needs.

It is not the gear, it is the diver. A diver can use any gear and make it look good.


Bob
-------------------------------
I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

 

[NubaScoob]

Don't mean to rain on your parade but would recommend NOT buying gear just yet at least not until you've done some more diving. I say this for three reasons, to make sure you actually really like diving, to have some time to check out what other gear/ equipment options there are and to find out what type of diving you like or would like to move into. Most divers including myself have bought and replaced gear more than once, certainly in my case because I bought too soon having no idea what was what and bought what my LSD sold/recomended. The gear your looking at I'm not familiar with but I'm sure it would be adequate for rec ow diving, I personally wouldn't buy it as I prefer bp/w over bcs (thats a hole other thread)I like both my primary and secondary 2nd stages to be the same i.e. equal breathing performance (+ease of servicing) I like wrist mounted computers and simple brass and glass SPG. This is only my opinion and my preference, you will get many different ones here on SB. I would recommend you do some research and reading about different equipment options on this forum and if possible talk to other divers. LDS generally recommend what ever it is they sell which may be great but maybe not, often but not always its more about them than you. I'm happy to assist further if you wish you can PM me. Good luck with the rest of your course and welcome to SB.

I have been told this by a few people already including my LDS and your response does point out great points. I like the idea of my first and second stage being the exact same now that you mention it for services and equal breathing. Through reading and talking to divers I found that a large number of divers end up changing their "taste" in gear the more they dive and end up rebuying. That being said I already would say that I am pretty darn certain that I like diving enough to get gear and already plan on purchasing multiple sets of gear as it is. I can always resell it right haha..

Fully agree. It would be better to try some different types of equipment (not brands, per se, but styles) before taking the purchasing plunge. There IS something exciting about owning your own gear, about putting YOUR new gear on and hopping in the water with it the first time. But, if you could forestall that gratification for just a few months, you might find the wait is worth it.

I have a jacket BCD which I use as a pool BCD, and as an OW check-out BCD. Perfectly fine unit, gets the job done, good buoyancy and trim characteristics. But, for personal recreational diving, I started with a weight-integrated, back-inflate (rather than jacket) BCD - a Zeagle Ranger. Great BCD, that now sites in a closet unused, since I moved to a backplate/wing. Like buddhasummer, I am not trying to stumulate a BP/W debate, just telling you what I use.

I would encourage you to try a back-inflate BCD before buying - whether a soft BCD like a Zeagle Express, or a 'hard' BCD like a BP/W, doesn't matter. Just try a back-inflate before you go jacket. Make sure it is a back-inflate with a crotch strap. I find I have better trim underwater in a back-inflate, I have a little more secure fit at the surface with a crotch strap. I personally like a stainless steel backplate because it puts weight where I want it - not in pockets on my BCD, not all on my waist, but on my upper body, where the tank and regulator are.

Well, I am a little guy and everything my instructor told me about back inflates is that they are great and a lot of people use them but that I may find myself fighting to not always be face down as the back portion of the BC wants to be the first part of me to rise up. As soon as I heard this it ruined my thoughts of a back inflate as I can totally see myself constantly struggling with trying to stay upright and not enjoying that. I will however take your advice and try one at least though first..

I would encourage you NOT to go weight-integrated. If you can use a weight-belt, do so, at least at first.

I would encourage you to go with two second stages that are the same. I prefer to be sure that my buddy has the same second stage I do, I like the fact that they are interchangeable, and that the service kits are the same.

I would encourage you NOT to spend the extra money on a 3-gauge console. In fact, I would encourage you NOT to use a console at all. A wrist-mounted depth gauge / computer, coupled with a simple pressure gauge on a HP hose is more streamlined. For a compass, a variety of options are available, including wrist-mounted units, or a even compass on a retractor that clips to a chest strap. Either are functional.

If you peruse many threads on SB, you will find more than a few stories of people who bought equipment as new divers, that they later found (sooner, rather than later) was not what they really wanted, and which was ultimately replaced. You may, after trying several different styles of equipment, come back to the exact package you are looking at now (I am skeptical that will be the case, but it is possible). If so, you will then purchase with confidence, knowing it is exactly what you want. But, you also may not come back to it and select other equipment instead, and purchase what you want, happy that you did not have to buy twice, like too many newer divers before you.

As for weight integration I did use a weight belt for the pool sessions and it was not as comfortable as having the weight in the BCD. I did like the fact that when removing the BCD that I was still waited under water though. Either way I can still consider a weight integrated BCD and remove mostly all the weights from it and still use a belt can't I?

I am seeing the light on the two second stages part. nuff said on that

I have been debating the console/wrist mount options already but figured it would be best to try to keep my wrists free. Im not too big on wearing things on my wrist, even watchs unless I have to so I am still leaning towards a console. Spending the extra money on it isn't a big issue for me though.

Welcome to the board and diving.
My perspective is somewhat different than budda and Colliam (whom I dive with from time to time and DM for him on occasion) and like you said, it's mostly personal preference. Like Colliam7, I dive a Varity of BCs depending on the situation, an old jacket BC in the pool with students, one of a couple of different back inflates when doing OW or fun diving and if the dive permits, just an old school back plate with no wing. I can hold perfect trim and have dead on buoyancy control in any of them, a good diver can dive any BC. I like them all and rather than use 1 BC I prefer to dive the one that best suits my needs at the time. I am one of the few who tried a BP/wing and was not impressed.....or at least will admit it. They work fine but I don't see the big deal, a back inflate does just as well although I do prefer back inflates to jacket types for most diving. For me a steel BP is a bad choice because it overweights me for any warm water diving I do, by almost 6 lbs if I am diving warm fresh water. I can always add weight to a weight belt but if the BC is inherently more negative than I need, it's a bad choice. Same goes for steel tanks, I can’t use them for the same reason. Plus I travel a good bit, 4 or 5 extra pounds in my luggage is something I can do without. Your results will vary but it's something to keep in mind.
Our choice of gauges and location is somewhat different as well. I prefer my computer on my wrist but if I also like a 3 gauge console at the same time. It keeps my compass where I can find it without cluttering up my arms and I like to keep an analog depth gauge on my console for back up.....I have had 3 computers die underwater but never lost analog gauge yet.
As for gear brands, they are a matter of personal choice as well, pretty much any of the major brands make very good equipment. Find a good shop near you that has a good reg tech and buy the brand he services, a good tech is more important that the reg brand IMO. I would stick to one of the major brands for several reasons. First off, they are more likely to be around 5 or 10 years from now and still have parts for your reg. A good dive reg will last the diving lifetime of several divers so parts and service are important…my favorite reg is almost as old as Colliam7 . In addition, if you travel with your reg, the major brands tend to be easier to find service for in the event you need service when you travel. Don’t buy a reg based on price or advertising BS. The mid range regs of any of the major brands are fine and the real performance different between any of them is so small only a machine can detect the difference. Same goes for the top of the line regs, their performance is most often the same as the mid range regs, you are paying for pretty bling and questionably useful features. Fact is, if you look carefully at the mid and high end regs of the same brand you will find they use the same internal design and parts.
Gear is mostly a personal choice, dive for a while, renting and if possible borrowing different styles of gear to see what YOU prefer, after all , that is what really matters.

Queston on the brands thing, is Aeris considered to be a "major brand" and large enough to be considerd a good choice? Also I do plan to look into analog backup devices because they are less likely to fail

First of all listen to herman.

Second, as much as you want to go out and grab everything, now is the time to slow down and make your purchace count. I don't know about you but, money is not easy for me to come by so I take my time to check out gear and find what works for me.

Lastly, in Florida there is a lot of good used gear that can be picked up reasonably and recycled later if it does not fit your needs.

It is not the gear, it is the diver. A diver can use any gear and make it look good.


Bob
-------------------------------
I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

I thought about looking for used gear and have been perusing the local craigslist, flea markets, and pawn shops but nobody has anything small enough for me (BCD) or the equipment looks so old and tore up that it would need significant servicing and in the long run I would be better buying new. As for money not coming easy, well, I am a single guy with no wife and kids, have a GOOD job, and a lot of disposable income so money is not really a concern. I am not looking into buying the most fancy shpancy gear out there but for me to buy something now that I may only use a few times before deciding to change up part or all of it won't bother me much.

Another thing to note is that I have a friend that I am trying to get into scuba as well (same exact size as me physically) but he is not as well off financially as me so I have been trying to help him out. I bought him a good set of wetsuit and booties for Xmas and he already has his fins, mask and snorkel so he is ready to take the class now. I was thinking that if I buy this gear and I end up changing it for something else I can always give it to him dirt cheap to help him out. call it, investing in my future dive buddy

Thanks for all the info so far! More responses are greatly welcomed!

Ant

 

[beaverdivers]

Hi Ant,

Here's another point of view.

As soon as a person crosses the threshold of truly becoming a diver, then they should buy their gear. It sounds like you are ready to be a Diver!

Yes, make a commitment to this thrilling sport and invest in your gear.

Yes, buy new gear that fits and that you like; wt. integrated jacket B.C., ect.

Have FUN getting into your gear. Doesn't it make you feel good when you get NEW stuff. Look good, feel good, dive better.

Why do people want you in inferior or used gear? It always amazes me. I see friends giving their "friends" their used leaky mask. Is it really helping them?

Good for you, buying your friend new gear!

I find divers that commit to this sport and buy their own gear stay in this sport.

Do you know a golfer who doesn't own their own clubs?

The difference is SCUBA gear is Life Support and much more personal. You don't have to put a club in your mouth, usually.

Don't buy something just to save money. You will end up hating it until you intentionally loose it.

We don't SCUBA dive to save money. We dive to have FUN.


Good Luck & Good Diving!

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Again with the life support......
Your brain is your life support. The gear just helps you out. No one is making junk as far as gear is concerned. Some stupid stuff yeah. But any gear you buy will work. You can save a ton of money and still get great gear by shopping around and considering ALL brands of equipment.

 

[herman]

Oh please, what a LDS sales pitch.

Hi Ant,

Here's another point of view.

As soon as a person crosses the threshold of truly becoming a diver, then they should buy their gear. It sounds like you are ready to be a Diver!

Problem is a person in that position really has no idea what they actully need or want. The perfect person for a LDS to sell overpriced gear that they may well not like after they get some experience....and another sale.

Yes, make a commitment to this thrilling sport and invest in your gear.

Yes, buy new gear that fits and that you like; wt. integrated jacket B.C., ect.

Absolutely buy gear that fits and that you like (see above) but why does it have to be new?? Beaver, unless you pull gear off the rack and dive it only once, you too are diving "used" gear.

Have FUN getting into your gear. Doesn't it make you feel good when you get NEW stuff. Look good, feel good, dive better.

Actually no, it feels good when I get a great deal, which new rarely is.

Why do people want you in inferior or used gear? It always amazes me. I see friends giving their "friends" their used leaky mask. Is it really helping them?

Who suggested inferior gear and why do you think used gear is inferior? See above.

Good for you, buying your friend new gear!

I find divers that commit to this sport and buy their own gear stay in this sport.

And the sales papers are full of used gear that new divers bought and either did not like after they spent some time diving or discovered they did not want to stay in the sport.....come to think of it, buying their lightly used gear for pennies on the dollar does make me happy.

Do you know a golfer who doesn't own their own clubs?

The difference is SCUBA gear is Life Support and much more personal. You don't have to put a club in your mouth, usually.

One of the most common sales tactics to sale overpriced gear.

As far as brand of gear goes Scubapro is top of the line. If you buy the best ( not most expensive necessarily ), then it will take care of you for a very long time.

On this we do agree, SP is a good brand and will last a long time.... which by the way is the reason used SP gear is a good choice. The same can be said for several other brands.

Don't buy something just to save money. You will end up hating it until you intentionally loose it.

Which is why you should not buy until you have a good understanding of what you really like and need and renting or borrowing makes sence.

We don't SCUBA dive to save money. We dive to have FUN.

PM, if you wish professional advice. Check out our specials on our web site.

Or just take the advise of at least 2 instructors and a DM who don't sell gear but train students.

Good Luck & Good Diving!

 

[Scott]

Well, I am a little guy and everything my instructor told me about back inflates is that they are great and a lot of people use them but that I may find myself fighting to not always be face down as the back portion of the BC wants to be the first part of me to rise up. As soon as I heard this it ruined my thoughts of a back inflate as I can totally see myself constantly struggling with trying to stay upright and not enjoying that. I will however take your advice and try one at least though first..

The "fighting to not always be face down" comment usually comes from divers who have spent very little time in a back inflate BC, divers who spend way to much time on the surface trying to stay still, like in a class, or are not comfortable in the water and over inflate the BC. Those later divers would do the same in any BC, not just a BI.
When on the surface ride the BC lower in the water, kick back and relax. If you're properly trimmed for underwater, on the surface the BC should hold you close to vertical or slightly leaning back.

As for weight integration I did use a weight belt for the pool sessions and it was not as comfortable as having the weight in the BCD. I did like the fact that when removing the BCD that I was still waited under water though. Either way I can still consider a weight integrated BCD and remove mostly all the weights from it and still use a belt can't I?

Yes, you can. That is a common configuration with divers who require a large amount of ballast but will work for any diver.

I have been debating the console/wrist mount options already but figured it would be best to try to keep my wrists free. Im not too big on wearing things on my wrist, even watchs unless I have to so I am still leaning towards a console. Spending the extra money on it isn't a big issue for me though.

Like you I am not big on wearing watches or other items on my wrist but I use a wrist mount for diving. I never have to think about where my console may be or if it has unclipped and is dragging behind me.

Queston on the brands thing, is Aeris considered to be a "major brand" and large enough to be considerd a good choice? Also I do plan to look into analog backup devices because they are less likely to fail

They are a big player in the industry, not sure I would put them in the 'big 5', I wouldn't put HOG in the 'big 5' either but they have solid gear as well. FYI, I own zero Aeris or HOG so I'm not try to sell you a brand.