New diving regulation in Israel

[Ari]

This will not interest you directly, but just as a thought...

After a few tragic accidents, some fatal, the Israeli diving authority (yes, we have something like this), published a regulation obligating new divers to have at least 20 guided dives (including those of the diving classes) before plunging into the water on their own (but with a buddy, naturally).

The Israeli dive scene is having a big argument between divers for and against the new regulation.

Do you think that a few more guided dives, prior to getting into the water on one's own can really make a difference?

Ari

 

[MikeFerrara]

I think it's good for a new diver to dive with someone more experienced. However, I don't think it's a good idea for it to be law.

 

[Ari]

having an experienced buddy? I am not sure that he will want to dive with a newbie.

Doing some guided dives through a dive club? and if so, how many before going under on your own?

Any other ideas will be welcome. I might even suggest it to the Israeli authorities.

Ari

 

[ERP]

I certainly don't think it's necessarilly a bad thing to have guided dives after finishing open water. It's one of the reasons I took my AOW immediately following OW, it certainly increases confidence if nothing else.

I do agree with Mike that it shouldn't be mandated by law.

On the bright side on the 20 or so guided dives you should meet enough people to have a good selection of budies to dive with beyond that point.

Probably the biggest challenge I've faced since getting certified is finding budies to dive with, I'd dive considerably more often than the once a week or so I manage now if I could find budies willing to put up with a newbie.

 

[drizzt117]

I'm kinda curious how they plan to enforce it. Do you get a special card from the government when you've completed 20 guided dives? Does then the government have to keep a list of certified "guides" to allow guided dives? Sounds like an awful waste of money.

Thomas

 

[art.chick]

There are so many things that can cause a diving fatality that I am not sure that any amount of legislation can plug the holes. Deaths that are publicized make people think they have to do something to prevent more. Is the issue here that newly certified divers are the majority of the diver deaths in Israel?

Here we have had some recent deaths including one that happened with the instructor actually holding onto the student! The guy just plain embolized on the way up, & there was not a thing the instructor could do about it! If every dive is a guided dive (up to the 20th dive) and people are still dying, does that make the guide liable?

This is a sport that has risks. It is part of the OW instructor's job to let students know that. They sign release forms. IF you check out the DAN statistics, diver deaths include people of all experience levels, both sexes, & all ages. There seem to be more deaths among beginners & long-time divers. If the cause of the deaths is inexperience, that is different than poor health, freak conditions in the environment, or equipment malfunction. A guide could help with some of that stuff, but not with the rest. If new divers who have just spent a pile of money on classes & equipment now have to pay a guide for 20 dives, many people will not get the experience they need to become competent divers on their own. We all know that to be a good dover, you must dive. There is no replacement for that.

 

[JamesK]

Although many people think it is, it is NOT any governments place to try to protect it's citizens from their own stupidity or ignorance. Many people now a days have no qualms with throughing away freedom in the name of protection and security. It sickens me. Everyone feels like if someone dies doing anything, then the government should regulate it. Hell, let a couple people die by hanging them selves with their shoelaces, and you will have people screaming that shoelaces should be regulated and everyone should have velcro shoes.

I am sorry this is happening to your country right now. With everything else that goes on over in your part of the world, you would think the government would have better things to spend the money it takes from its citizens on.


Good Luck.

 

[Ari]

When you come to a dive club or an LDS in order to rent or fill a tank, he will ask to see your logbook, signed with the 20 dives. It doesn't really stop you if you really want to go UW.

But I didn't raise the issue just as a complaint. I was really trying to find out if someone has any ideas. The diving federations are, for many years already, commercial bodies and the level of instruction is not, to say the least, on its way to getting better.

How many supervised dives are sufficient before going on your own? What would be the recommended refreshment procedure for someone who didn't dive for a long period (and what should be considered long)? Is a certification from one place in the world, where training level is not as good, should be accepted everywhere?

It's clear that the government should not be responsible for every stupid thing we do. Further more, it can probably not be enforced. At the end of the day the responsibility is only ours.

Ari

 

[JamesK]

It is hard to answer your questions as everyone is different. Someone who has 50 dives, could be a worse diver then someone who has 6. Someone who takes 2 months off from diving, could still have better skills than someone who dives regular. Just as someone who is trained by a piss poor training agency, could be one of the safest and most efficient divers around. Their are too many variables for this. To set a mandatory limit, IMO, is no safer than not having one. Someone could do the mandatory 20 guided dives, and still kill themselves on dive 21.

 

[Walter]

"Do you think that a few more guided dives, prior to getting into the water on one's own can really make a difference?"

Yes! It makes a big difference! Some people do this without it being required. It almost always makes them a dependent diver. They don't know how to dive on their own. I have a policy not to dive with my former students until they've gotten additional experience on their own. I have previous plans, but encourage them to consider me for future dives.

This is a very bad idea.