New diver lost in the arguments

[Jim Lapenta]

"3C. SEI is more thorough, but my understanding (based on Jim's comments) is I would only get one shot, I don't get my money back if I make two mistakes and I am permanently out of the program. I guess SEI only gives you one chance in life to learn the skills and if you make two mistakes, you don't get to be a diver, but nevertheless, I should recertify with SEI."

This if you had read and actually quoted the entire post would show that these are not SEI Standards but MY standards for the AOW course I TEACH. They are not that difficult for a properly trained diver and are such to impress upon the diver that two things are paramount to me. Number one is diver safety. If a diver demonstrates a disregard for that why would I even consider giving him/her a card with my name on it as the instructor? Second is that if you are going to get an AOW card from me that gives you access to advanced dives you will not get it without demonstrating that you have the skills to safely plan, execute, and return from that dive. My requirements are designed to make sure that divers DO NOT FAIL my course. And that they are the kind of divers who I would allow anyone I cared about to dive with.

You are new to this board and may not realize how some of us feel about the watering down of training standards. You may not also realize how many so-called advanced divers have died doing dives they were in no way ready for and even OW divers who were taken on dives that are considered by many to be advanced and did not return.

I clearly state that I do not teach to turn out large numbers of divers. I teach to turn out divers who I would let my children dive with without another pro in the water. At any level. It sounds as if you did not get that kind of training and neither did your wife and child. I have to ask you why that was acceptable to you. Especially in the case of your child. If you are going to quote me be accurate and do it in the context it was in.

 

[krawlings]

Here is My 2 cents worth . I think you should find a local dive club , some local dives and get in the water and practice your new skills and then you can start to evaluate where you are (skill wise) You can find some great dive buddies here on the Board . Good luck and dive safe

 

[mselenaous]

I agree with Jax. It's the DIVER...

You have sufficient training...just go dive and dive frequently to keep skills fresh and to improve them. If you are uncomfortable at this point planning and diving with just your buddy, then by all means dive where there are Divemasters guiding dives. Find some more experienced local divers to mentor you as you gain experience and confidence. Stay within your own comfort levels and don't be self-conscious about being "that guy" on a boat. We all were "that guy" when we started out but eventually transitioned out by getting more experience.

As for training, for now dive dive dive, and I recommend taking Rescue class. It's about self-preservation and is in addition to being personally challenging one of the funnest classes you'll take. Beyond that if you never take another class, then at least you know how to care for your family in an emergency. If you later decide futher training will help you achieve your dive goals for the type of diving you want to do, then go for it.

BTW, welcome to Scubaboard.

Don't forget, opinions are like arm-pits, everyone has a couple and oft times they stink. Take it all with a grain of salt, use the knowledge gleened to form your own informed opinions and decide what is right for you.

 

[mselenaous]

The detail I left out is that my wife and I are heading to Key Largo in February. Not strictly for diving, as we love Key Largo anyway, but since we will be there... I was really looking forward to an ocean dive, but we only have experience in quarries in Ohio - and not a lot at that. We have already set up some pool time at the LDS and we are going over our training again before we leave. I also planned on finding a Dive shop that will take our experience into account, but once I started reading here, well, I like to be prepared for anything, that's all. There was such a large disparity between my first training years ago and my last one, that sort of got my attention as well.
Thanks!

Having worked in Key Largo, you will be well prepared for the diving there. Most diving there is gentle <40ft reefs. Most dive shops gear most of their trips to this level of diving with a few deeper dives scheduled. Don't hesitate to ask for an inwater guide for any dive (especially the first one) or one of the deep wreck dives. There is a great sticky thread at the top of the Florida Conch's Forum with all the Keys info to help you plan your trip.

You will have a blast! Enjoy one of my favorite dive destinations!

 

[Jax]

Also, I can take the heat from the others. If I screw up, call me on it.

Well-l-l-l . . . Since you didn't ask to move this to the "New to Diving" forum, that does make you fair game . . . :blinking:

The detail I left out is that my wife and I are heading to Key Largo in February. Not strictly for diving, as we love Key Largo anyway, but since we will be there... I was really looking forward to an ocean dive, but we only have experience in quarries in Ohio - and not a lot at that. We have already set up some pool time at the LDS and we are going over our training again before we leave. I also planned on finding a Dive shop that will take our experience into account, but once I started reading here, well, I like to be prepared for anything, that's all. There was such a large disparity between my first training years ago and my last one, that sort of got my attention as well.
Thanks!

DON'T DO IT! These are conditions beyond your wildest experiences! The water is WARM, and SOFT . . . . And you can SEEEE forever! OMG, you will SO ruin yourself for diving anywhere other than the south!

Furthermore, the people . . . . they are all kinds of friendly and helpful and considerate . . . You won't understand their southern, welcoming culture, you'll feel so "out of water" compared to the frozen north . . .

John, please -- don't go down there unless you are prepared to deal with the immediate and pervasive ADDICTION to diving warm.



Jax,
Warm Water Wuss . . . :kiss2:

 

[irishsquid]

Hi, John! Welcome to the board!...
As for which which agency is best . . . . . . that's like "which beer is best?", "which university is best?", "which automaker is best?" . . .
. . . .

Welcome John! I can't really add anything more except....
Coors Light Silver Bullet
University of Tennessee
Ford

 

[jstamets]

"3C. SEI is more thorough, but my understanding (based on Jim's comments) is I would only get one shot, I don't get my money back if I make two mistakes and I am permanently out of the program. I guess SEI only gives you one chance in life to learn the skills and if you make two mistakes, you don't get to be a diver, but nevertheless, I should recertify with SEI."

This if you had read and actually quoted the entire post would show that these are not SEI Standards but MY standards for the AOW course I TEACH. They are not that difficult for a properly trained diver and are such to impress upon the diver that two things are paramount to me. Number one is diver safety. If a diver demonstrates a disregard for that why would I even consider giving him/her a card with my name on it as the instructor? Second is that if you are going to get an AOW card from me that gives you access to advanced dives you will not get it without demonstrating that you have the skills to safely plan, execute, and return from that dive. My requirements are designed to make sure that divers DO NOT FAIL my course. And that they are the kind of divers who I would allow anyone I cared about to dive with.

You are new to this board and may not realize how some of us feel about the watering down of training standards. You may not also realize how many so-called advanced divers have died doing dives they were in no way ready for and even OW divers who were taken on dives that are considered by many to be advanced and did not return.

I clearly state that I do not teach to turn out large numbers of divers. I teach to turn out divers who I would let my children dive with without another pro in the water. At any level. It sounds as if you did not get that kind of training and neither did your wife and child. I have to ask you why that was acceptable to you. Especially in the case of your child. If you are going to quote me be accurate and do it in the context it was in.

Jim, I do have a lot of respect for you. You remind me of a mentor I once had - very tough, like a drill sergeant, but you were good if you got through his classes. You don't mince words or waste time.
Well, I did read the whole thing. In fact I spent 5 hours reading just one thread because odds are someone else has asked a question or posited an opinion that might parallel my thoughts. What I did NOT do was to commit it to memory or return to that post, wherever it was, to regurgitate it here. I misremembered and that was my fault and wrong of me. Upon reflection, I realize that the entire section on the various agencies is also largely superfluous so I will just delete the whole section to avoid continuing any inaccuracies contained therein.

Please remember I have been through the OW training program twice, each time successfully, with 100% scores on all exams and water exercises. I am not saying this to indicate how "wonderfully trained" I am, but rather that I completed those classes so that it would be reasonable to believe that I was adequately trained to dive. The very reason I am posting the question here is because of you and others that seem to have a deep sense of responsibility and a passion for safety - which I respect. I am very much a "By the book" type of person and when another seemingly experienced individual points out that my "book" might be wrong, well, then I am obligated to inquire further. This does not mean that I feel my training was unacceptable, but rather that I am engaged in a prudent questioning of my training based on what you and others have said regarding the style of training I have received. The problem is that these alleged inadequacies are usually broad in nature, so I don't have enough detailed information to know what, exactly, I am missing, if anything. If you asked me if I have adequate training, I would say yes, within my limits.

If my training (or that of my family) is inadequate, then we will not dive until it is so. I will not compromise that. But in order to make that decision, I need to know from people like you why the three classes that I have had are inadequate, since the agenc(ies) that certified me (or almost certified me, in the case of the older class), inform me to the contrary.

Thus my question.

 

[tajkd]

I think you have this all wrong. Experience is your real teacher. You know the theory, you have some OW dives, and now you need to dive AND continue your training. Just like this post, it seems you don't yet know what questions to ask. You need to dive and experience, and then also get training, ask questions. btw - I have 500 successful, mostly safe dives and I don't think I ever scored 100% on any test. Maybe I should have not done any diving until I did get a 100.

Like the others said, forget the agency argument. Your instructor isn't going to go on every dive with you... unless you keep thinking like this.

 

[adurso]

*SNIP*

If my training (or that of my family) is inadequate, then we will not dive until it is so. I will not compromise that. But in order to make that decision, I need to know from people like you why the three classes that I have had are inadequate, since the agenc(ies) that certified me (or almost certified me, in the case of the older class), inform me to the contrary.

Thus my question.

As a reasonable person do you feel comfortable in the conditions you are looking at diving in?

Are you confident enough in yourself to call a dive if you are uncomfortable?

If so go do your dives. Find a more experienced person to "mentor" you, take continuing classes as a family.

Plan and practice.

Your classes have given you the information you need to go down and up, the rest will come from practice and more practice. Further classes will help also.

 

[SCUBASailor]

I'm not much more experienced than you. I got NAUI OW training, and my dives have all been a breeze. Speaking as one who is regularly told to stop over-analyzing (actually, those were the exact words of my diving instructor), stop over-analyzing and enjoy yourself! It's great down there!