New Diver Looking At Suunto Zoop Or Geo 2.0

[uncfnp]

Yeah... there are more people than yourself that report anecdotal info like that.

Then there are anecdotes like this one. And I have my own from diving previously with someone using a Cressi Giotto (which is often the subject of the same "conservative" accusations and subsequent debate).



I wonder if the anecdotes on both sides wouldn't be revealed to simply be examples of how different dive profiles really matter. If you did one dive to 107 and then subsequent dives were typically under 60', what you report would make sense and still be consistent with the general notion that Suunto and Cressi computers are generally more conservative than Oceanic. I don't know what typical depths are for diving Bonaire. If most dives are 60' or less, then ditto.

Where I would expect the differences between all those computers to really become significant is when someone is doing multiple dives in a day and all the dives are deep. Initial dives past 100'. Subsequent dives in the 80+ range. That is a typical day diving the NC wrecks and that is where I've seen my dive buddy's Cressi send us to the surface when my Oceanic would have let me stay longer - and I still had plenty of air.

Just to clarify, my experience is with the Cressi and not the Suunto and I agree, if you follow the "rules" (things that most divers should be doing anyway) with your dive profiles, you aren't penalized and the subsequent dives will be longer. Not as long as a pure DSAT but long enough for the average recreational diver. And yes, anyone that wants or needs to push NDL's or profiles (including DM's) will likely find the Suunto/Mares/Cressi too restrictive.

Speaking of anecdotal evidence, I can verify that for me the "conservative" algorithm is safer. It was 2 maybe 3 cases of skin bends on the DSAT that had me switch. Now even on the Petrel, I dive very conservative settings.

I should also add that my personal examples are with the setting at the most "liberal" on the Cressi. If I set the SF high, the dives will indeed be severally restricted, even if you do everything "right."

 

[scubadada]

Speaking of anecdotal evidence, I can verify that for me the "conservative" algorithm is safer. It was 2 maybe 3 cases of skin bends on the DSAT that had me switch. Now even on the Petrel, I dive very conservative settings.

Sorry you are so prone to DCS. I have over 1100 dives on DSAT since 2002, many pushing deco and about 5% with light deco. Fortunately, I have had nary a hint of DCS. As I have grown older, I have become more conservative. In general, I take a 5 minute safety stop if I have come within a few minutes of deco, and I pad my deco with an additional 3-5 minutes at the shallow stop. Of course, this is only anecdotal, n=1, experience.

 

[uncfnp]

Thanks and yes, just shows the variability person to person. I think Eric could just throw away his computer, go dive his 120' to empty and never have a problem.

 

[Centrals]

As compared with Uwatec Aladin, Veo 180 is indeed very very liberal especially above 20m after ascending from a 30m+ rec dive.

 

[MikadoWu]

I'm a new diver with 20 dives under my belt and am looking to get my first real piece of dive equipment, a dive computer.
Open to other suggestions as well but would like to stay below $400.

Hey Brent, Welcome to the dive world.

When my family first started diving I purchased 2 Zoops for the kids. They last about 6 months and we sold them.

My daughter Dives with the Geo 2 and loves it, way more then the Zoop. My Son and girlfriend Dive OCi's and I have another in the mail. They are very much loved.

Look on eBay and be patient. When I first started diving, I purchased a lot of new gear. Then a dive buddy taught me a lot and got me on eBay. Now over half of our gear was purchased from eBay.

I only paid $165 for my daughters Geo 2. My Girlfriends OCi I found for $500. Little over your Range but it was brand new and lists for $1200. If you are paitnet, I have seen the Geo 2 other big brother the Atom 3.1 for under $300 with transceiver. If you are set on the Zoop, I have seen them under $250.

 

[Willar]

I've used a Suunto Cobra (on-hose air-integrated version of the Zoop) for several years and I bought the GEO 2.0 for my backup a few years ago. My dive buddy uses the Zoop. Go for the Geo 2.0 - great computer!

I would strongly recommend the Geo 2 over the Suunto. It is less conservative than the Suunto but highly adjustable if you want to be very conservative. Some of my dives the Suunto is showing very little NDL time but the Geo shows more and adds more time quicker as I ascend. The Geo battery is easily replaced by the user but not so on the Suunto. The Geo is much easier to operate with better menus in my opinion. Also, I like the smaller size on my wrist compared to the Zoop.

 

[docmartin]

Just to clarify, my experience is with the Cressi and not the Suunto and I agree, if you follow the "rules" (things that most divers should be doing anyway) with your dive profiles, you aren't penalized and the subsequent dives will be longer. Not as long as a pure DSAT but long enough for the average recreational diver. And yes, anyone that wants or needs to push NDL's or profiles (including DM's) will likely find the Suunto/Mares/Cressi too restrictive.

I can't speak for Cressi but my wife and our younger son dive Mares Puck Pros. While they run RGBM like Suunto they still give you longer dives than the Suunto. Suunto apparently has some stricter parameters built into their version of RGBM.

 

[Oldbear]

I use about six Zoops in my Open Water classes. My personal computer is a Petrel. Before every dive we do our dive planning and the Zoops are within a few minutes of NDL of my Petral. For recreational dive limits the Zoop is just fine. I see many posts saying how the Suuntos are more conservative but rarely quantifying what that means.

Here is an example.

Petral ---------- Zoop
50' 76min. --- 50' 69min
60' 50min. --- 60' 50min
70' 34min. --- 70' 36min
80' 25min. --- 80' 28min
90' 19min. --- 90' 22min
100' 15min --- 100' 17min
110' 12min. ---110' 13min
120' 9min. --- 120' 10min
130' 8min. --- 130' 9min

So no one complains that the the Petral's Buhlmann GF ZHL-16C algorithm is too conservative but you see a lot of complaints that the Suunto's Zoop is. I just do not see it based on the NDL planners' data from above. After 60' the Zoop is more liberal.

 

[scubadada]

I use about six Zoops in my Open Water classes. My personal computer is a Petrel. Before every dive we do our dive planning and the Zoops are within a few minutes of NDL of my Petral. For recreational dive limits the Zoop is just fine. I see many posts saying how the Suuntos are more conservative but rarely quantifying what that means.

Here is an example.

Petral ---------- Zoop
50' 76min. --- 50' 69min
60' 50min. --- 60' 50min
70' 34min. --- 70' 36min
80' 25min. --- 80' 28min
90' 19min. --- 90' 22min
100' 15min --- 100' 17min
110' 12min. ---110' 13min
120' 9min. --- 120' 10min
130' 8min. --- 130' 9min

So no one complains that the the Petral's Buhlmann GF ZHL-16C algorithm is too conservative but you see a lot of complaints that the Suunto's Zoop is. I just do not see it based on the NDL planners' data from above. After 60' the Zoop is more liberal.

What GFs do you use on your Petrel, these look like 45/95?

DSAT
50' 81 min
60' 57 min
70' 40 min
80' 30 min
90' 24 min
100' 19 min
110' 16 min
120' 13 min
130' 11 min

The real problem is that these are single 1st dives. The results for multiple dives cannot be predicted from the single dive data. The Suunto proprietary RGBM decompression algorithm penalizes for certain dive practices that are not well documented, the most common being shorter surface intervals. There is little data on multiple dives, see the link to the ScubaLab data and discussion in the recent SB thread: New Diver, New Computer

 

[Willar]

Yes, Suunto seems to be shorter times on repetitive dives and multiple dive days. One dive alone not much difference.

Another nit-pick on the Suunto: safety stop timer shows full minutes with no seconds. I like the Geo that shows the countdown in minutes and seconds. Also, if you are outside the 10-20 foot safety-stop zone the Suunto stops counting where the Geo keeps counting.