New diver, looking at Suunto D5

[Belzelbub]

It a choice about what to do, lock people out, like Suunto, or not, like Shearwater.

Exactly. And, to be fair, there are many other companies that have a lockout. For the most part it seems that the legacy manufacturers tend to lockout for violations. Oceanic, Aqualung, Suunto tend to employ the lockout model (though there may be new model exceptions). Relatively newer companies in the DC market (Shearwater, Garmin, Ratio, etc.) either don’t lockout, or allow the user to disable the lockout.

I’ve used Oceanic computers for years, and they would lockout. This hasn’t been an issue for me. I knew what would happen if I violated a limit, so I stayed within them.

I’ve heard of Suunto and Apple doing in-water lockouts, but the rest seem to wait until at the surface. I can’t even begin to understand the reasoning behind an in-water lockout, so I’ll just leave that alone.

For the post dive lockout, I have a couple of issues with them. First, they are triggered by violating a limit that may be self imposed. If I set my computer on a more conservative setting, it’s possible to lockout on a dive that would have been fine on a less conservative settings. Computers like the Shearwaters do calculate ceilings based on the conservatism settings, but with other information like SurfGF and GF99, it’s possible to see where you are regardless of conservatism.

Second is what happens after lockout. The computer functions in gauge mode until the lockout is cleared. If I’m not supposed to dive due to a violation, what possible use would I have for tracking time and depth on the surface?

 

[scubadada]

You violate your GFs with a Shearwater, you violated your mandatory deco. Maybe you decide your GF high was too low and adjust it up. It's entirely up to you,

 

[KenGordon]

It is pretty hard to express what sort of a **** you have to be to get locked out. Anyone that manages that is very unlikely to be competent to judge the extent of their mistake and know what sort of risk they run.

The gauge mode switch lock out I agree is stupid.

 

[Belzelbub]

It is pretty hard to express what sort of a **** you have to be to get locked out. Anyone that manages that is very unlikely to be competent to judge the extent of their mistake and know what sort of risk they run.

I agree for the most part, but there are reasons other than actual deco violations that Suuntos, at least, will lock out. Low battery is one. I’ve heard more than one user complain of a lockout for unknown reasons.

But, for the most part, I agree with you. If you don’t understand what your computer is telling you and violate a ceiling, then sitting out for some time is probably a real good idea.

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

I dive a Teric, I could make a D5 work. Shearwater has great US service, I don't know about Suunto

I will. Suunto is an absolute no-go.

Bought a D6 that was DOA shortly before a trip. It was my first and only DC at the time.

It would power up and you could sorta get to some parts of the menu tree, sometimes where you wanted to go, but that was a small fraction of the time and the rest of the time, no number or combination of button pushes would move you. Rather than listen when I said I was leaving on a dive trip in less than a week and needed a replacement before then, they offered, very graciously in **their** mind, I suppose, to let me send in my BRAND FRACKING NEW OUT OF THE BOX Suunto and maybe, in 4-6 weeks they would send me a used (and at one time broken) unit they had repaired.

I said screw that in the best Finnish accent I could muster (whatever that might sound like) and went to two local dive shops and purchased a Teric from one and a Perdix from the other. Returned the Suunto to Leisure Pro for a full refund. Was never happier than with that outcome to be rid of the Finnish Failure... I use Suunto compai - or compasses - or something, but never ever would I consider one of their electronic dive products. Sample of 1.

The Teric went back for a failing battery eventually and the customer service from Divetronix was exemplary. Also a sample of 1.

OMMOHY

 

[Wibble]

It is pretty hard to express what sort of a **** you have to be to get locked out. Anyone that manages that is very unlikely to be competent to judge the extent of their mistake and know what sort of risk they run.

The gauge mode switch lock out I agree is stupid.

Using a Suunto as a backup to a proper computer, say a Shearwater, and facing additional arbitrary delays — a Suunto tax.

People who’ve chosen a high-end Suunto whereas their buddies/teammates are using Shearwaters and they’ve cleared deco.

Of course we know that planning should dictate everyone using the same deco settings, but life isn’t that simple.

 

[KenGordon]

But some models dont take what happens where these tensions rise to form bubbles, and just ignore that issue.
Not diving for at least 24 hours does seem prudent in these cases?
The only issue is the lockout is too long right?

I am not sure what you are saying here so I will guess.

The idea with dissolved gas models is not really that if you go past a limit there will be bubbles all of a sudden. The idea is that if you go past a limit you see a particular percentage of test subjects getting bent. For the application you choose what you think is a reasonable percentage and work back to the limits. It is shades of grey, not black or white.

Thus a violation of the limit is not black or white either, just more risk. To keep the injury rate under control (Ie at or below the acceptable percentage) you need to control the number of violation.

How to do that? You can choose to lock people out so the users are incentivised to avoid violations, or you can ensure your customers are well trained and understand not to ignore the flashing red indications. Know your customer.

I don’t know if the 48 hour thing is for medical reasons or just to be annoying enough to make sure people avoid it.

 

[StenieJ]

Thank you all so much for all the information and opinions, I have learned a lot. The last 2 weeks I have been busy with getting married in Costa Mujeres, spending a week with 40 friends and family and squeezing in a morning of diving at Punta Negra and Manchones. After not totally blowing the wedding / travel budget, we've got some money to throw at the scuba black hole, so I'm getting the Teric Is it too much watch, yes. But absent any health issues, diving yesterday confirmed this is something we will be definitely doing multiple times a year.

 

[scubadada]

Thank you all so much for all the information and opinions, I have learned a lot. The last 2 weeks I have been busy with getting married in Costa Mujeres, spending a week with 40 friends and family and squeezing in a morning of diving at Punta Negra and Manchones. After not totally blowing the wedding / travel budget, we've got some money to throw at the scuba black hole, so I'm getting the Teric Is it too much watch, yes. But absent any health issues, diving yesterday confirmed this is something we will be definitely doing multiple times a year.

Congratulations. My wife and I are coming up on 44 years at the end of December. We've only been diving together for 21 years

 

[BoltSnap]

If I set my computer on a more conservative setting, it’s possible to lockout on a dive that would have been fine on a less conservative settings. Computers like the Shearwaters do calculate ceilings based on the conservatism settings, but with other information like SurfGF and GF99, it’s possible to see where you are regardless of conservatism.

Ratio allows you to change your GF/conservatism factor while underwater to allow for the unexpected, low gas supply for example, to allow you to spend less time at deco, or no deco obligation, when you don't have enough gas to do the deco or for longer time. Ratio also will reduce conservatism or do more liberal GF automatically if you miss stop(s).