New Diver - Advice on Purchasing Zeagle Express Tech BC

[KLJ]

Hi all,

I just did my PADI OW Certification this weekend and to be perfectly honest, I am absolutely hooked. I love it. I can't wait for more. In fact, if the conditions look good I'll be at Breakwater this weekend.

Before I get to my questions - first and foremost, I want to say thank you! I have been amazed at the inclusive and supportive environment fostered here on scuba board and by all the divers I have met on the beach and in my classes. I am truly beginning to feel like a member of the diving community and I appreciate it immensely.

So since I'm new and extremely excited, I realize I am going to need to go buy some gear instead of spending the same amount on rentals.

I own a 7mm Bare Wetsuit and 5mm Moreno Hooded Vest. This weekend, I wore 30lbs of weight (16 on a weight belt, 10 as integrated ripcords, and 4 in trim weights) with my rental BC. When I was returning my rentals at the shop, the Zeagle Express Tech BC caught my eye. My dive buddy and boyfriend uses a wing and plate system and I really like it. I am thinking this might be the way to go, but wanted to ask around first.

I read the scubaboard posts by NetDoc and mm2613, which were very helpful... but neither are diving Monterey so I was hoping to get some thoughts from divers who routinely dive those areas.

My biggest concern is if the 24lbs of lift will be enough. From class, my understanding is that a large part of the weight I need is simply to compensate for the bouyancy of the wetsuit and the padding in the BCD. If I was perfectly weighted, the only other weight I'd need other than that would be to compensate for the weight of the air that I lose while breathing so that I can remain neutrally bouyant at the end of the dive with an almost empty tank- an aluminum 80 in my case. My feeling is that, if I get my weighting almost perfect then 24lbs should be enough. Am I on the right track? Any help you can provide would truly be appreciated.

Thank you again!

-Katie

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Your BCD needs to be able to do the greater of: (a) having enough lift to float your rig (BCD, tank, integrated weights) without you in it or (b) having enough lift to compensate for a total loss of buoyancy in your exposure protection (wetsuit neoprene being "crushed" at depth). In order to figure out exactly how much lift is required, you need to take into consideration the exposure protection and the buoyancy characteristics of the tank.

24 lbs. of lift is probably pretty close to being sufficient. Many cold water divers have a wing/BCD with a lift of about 30 lbs. AFAIK, the Zeagle Tech Express can be fitted with a 35 lb. or 44 lb. bladder. This would be more than enough lift for almost any single tank diving I can think of.

For cold water divers, it can be helpful for trim considerations to center some weight over the lungs. This is where a stainless steel backplate might come in handy. If desired, a weighted single tank adapter can be used to add more non-ditchable weight to the rig in a "good" place, e.g., right over the spine. I'd recommend borrowing your boyfriend's BP/W rig for a few dives to see if you like it enough to own your own. Understand that the Zeagle Tech Express is very similar to a BP/W design...the only difference being that the BP/W gives a little more flexibility in terms of how you distribute your non-ditchable weight. The price of the ZTE is certainly quite attractive.

 

[Anti-Hero]

Welcome, KLJ. BCD choice has to be one of the most debated topics on SB. With that said, in our local MoCal waters a backplate+wing configuration is the preferred choice among many regular, local divers.

It's main benefits are:

1) Modular - You can configure it any way you want. Padding, no padding, integrated weights, no integrated weights, D-rings in any fathomable position, etc.

2) Depending on how you configure it, it's rarely positively buoyant, meaning you'll need less ballast in other places to compensate. Traditional jacket BCD's are very positively buoyant.

3) Better trim by moving weight over your lungs, vs. filling massive weight pockets around your waist.

4) Simplicity, uncluttered, and virtually unbreakable. If someone steps on a plastic fastex clip on a jacket BCD it can smash the clip and make it unusable.

5) Cost. You pay typically less for a system which will grow with you, not that you'll grow out of. AND if you ever decide to change they have a far better resale market than a jacket BCD.

These are just a small fraction of the advantages of a backplate+wing (BP/W).

 

[herman]

Welcome, KLJ. BCD choice has to be one of the most debated topics on SB. With that said, in our local MoCal waters a backplate+wing configuration is the preferred choice among many regular, local divers.

It's main benefits are:

1) Modular - You can configure it any way you want. Padding, no padding, integrated weights, no integrated weights, D-rings in any fathomable position, etc.

2) Depending on how you configure it, it's rarely positively buoyant, meaning you'll need less ballast in other places to compensate. Traditional jacket BCD's are very positively buoyant.

3) Better trim by moving weight over your lungs, vs. filling massive weight pockets around your waist.

4) Simplicity, uncluttered, and virtually unbreakable. If someone steps on a plastic fastex clip on a jacket BCD it can smash the clip and make it unusable.

5) Cost. You pay typically less for a system which will grow with you, not that you'll grow out of. AND if you ever decide to change they have a far better resale market than a jacket BCD.

These are just a small fraction of the advantages of a backplate+wing (BP/W).

You do realize the ET is a BP/wing, all be it a soft backplate.

 

[Anti-Hero]

You do realize the ET is a BP/wing, all be it a soft backplate.

Yes, I'm familiar with it. It's a far cry from a real "BP/W" system.

 

[CaboJim]

I wouldn't think that 24 lbs lift will not be enough in NorCal, especially if you're carrying any extra equipment, like a camera, game bag, etc. You can get the tech express fitted with a larger wing if you do decide to buy that particular set-up.

 

[Guy Alcala]

Hi all,

I just did my PADI OW Certification this weekend and to be perfectly honest, I am absolutely hooked. I love it. I can't wait for more. In fact, if the conditions look good I'll be at Breakwater this weekend.

Before I get to my questions - first and foremost, I want to say thank you! I have been amazed at the inclusive and supportive environment fostered here on scuba board and by all the divers I have met on the beach and in my classes. I am truly beginning to feel like a member of the diving community and I appreciate it immensely.

So since I'm new and extremely excited, I realize I am going to need to go buy some gear instead of spending the same amount on rentals.

I own a 7mm Bare Wetsuit and 5mm Moreno Hooded Vest. This weekend, I wore 30lbs of weight (16 on a weight belt, 10 as integrated ripcords, and 4 in trim weights) with my rental BC. When I was returning my rentals at the shop, the Zeagle Express Tech BC caught my eye. My dive buddy and boyfriend uses a wing and plate system and I really like it. I am thinking this might be the way to go, but wanted to ask around first.

I read the scubaboard posts by NetDoc and mm2613, which were very helpful... but neither are diving Monterey so I was hoping to get some thoughts from divers who routinely dive those areas.

My biggest concern is if the 24lbs of lift will be enough. From class, my understanding is that a large part of the weight I need is simply to compensate for the bouyancy of the wetsuit and the padding in the BCD. If I was perfectly weighted, the only other weight I'd need other than that would be to compensate for the weight of the air that I lose while breathing so that I can remain neutrally bouyant at the end of the dive with an almost empty tank- an aluminum 80 in my case. My feeling is that, if I get my weighting almost perfect then 24lbs should be enough. Am I on the right track? Any help you can provide would truly be appreciated.

Thank you again!

-Katie

Katie, congratulations on your cert! Much as we all know the feeling of wanting to start buying lots of gear right away, you might want to slow down a bit and try some different rentals from different shops before you start plunking down lots of money. It's hard to know what really suits you and your style of diving when you're still getting the basics squared away, and don't really know which direction your diving may take you. I'd advise getting 25-50 dives in, in as wide a variety of gear as you can, before you spend any more money on big ticket items. Your ideas of what you need/want will likely change considerably in that time, and although you may think you're throwing money away on rentals, you may save yourself more through not having to buy things twice. And you'll probably be able to find good used gear too, if you wish.

That being said, the Express Tech looks like its halfway to being a BP/Wing (which is what a lot of the more frequent divers use in Monterey), and the price is excellent. Depending on how your diving progresses and what equipment you use, 24 lb. of lift may be fine or marginal for you locally. Right now it's probably fine, and it would be good for travel (actually, it's more than you need for warm water diving). For instance, most of us who dive locally use steel tanks like an HP100 rather than an aluminum 80, which typically allows you to remove 6-8 lb. of weight from your waistbelt, as the tank is that much more negatively buoyant. So your BC would potentially need to float 16 to 20 lb. of weight (You may find that you can do without some of the trim weight) instead of just 14.

As you gain more experience, you'll almost certainly need less weight than you do now. OTOH, if you find that a wetsuit doesn't keep you warm enough to allow you to dive as often (or as deep) as you want, you'll want a drysuit, which will probably require more weight than your wetsuit(s) does. Many of us who dive dry don't use any dumpable weight because we've got redundant buoyancy, but now your BC has to be able to float the entire negative buoyancy of your gear, on the surface. And if you start adding things like cameras, lights, and other gear, each of those pieces of gear will be slightly negative.

So, you may be fine with 24 lb. now, but it may not be enough down the road a bit; you usually want a slight cushion to allow for growth, rough seas, etc. So, if you can stand waiting, try a few more BCs and/or a BP/Wing out. Borrow your boyfriend's if he's not diving, or I'm sure there are people here who will be happy to loan you one to try.

Enjoy!

Guy

 

[fisheater]

Another North Coast / Monterey diver here.

Welcome to our addiction.

I, too, advocate going with a stainless steel backplate and wings. I started off in a Zeagle and upgraded to a BP/W. That's a very common migration in our waters. Though I still love my Zeagle - which is an excellent BC - the BP/W is better suited for our cold waters and the weight and exposure protection we need. I use significantly less weight with my BP/W then I used with my Zeagle.

I stongly suggest that you look at Deep Sea Supply's system. Give the owner, Tobin, a call and discuss your lift needs. He's an expert at this and very helpful, to boot. Be sure to tell him you're a newbie, so he'll explain how the system works.

As far as cost goes, it's ALWAYS cheaper to buy your second set of gear first.

And, again, welcome. Be sure to post when you're planning on diving, as many of us like to show new divers "the ropes."

 

[np251]

The zeagle she has her eye on is the express-tech. Its pretty much a BP made out of toughened nylon (instead of SS) with a 24lb lift bladder. Definately more BP/W than jacket BC or even Zeagle Ranger type BC. I currently use a zeagle SS plate with a 35lb lift wing i pulled off my Ranger (bought the ranger and the plate at the same time, pulled the bladder and sold the rest of the ranger unused to a friend of mine). Single piece hogarthian harness. Up until this week was a drysuit user, but now a converted wetsuit newbie (thats for another thread, though). She definately see's the benefits of the BP/W set-up that i use compared to her rental BC and has made some very sensible comments regarding that to me. One of her questions for example was 'why dont they all come with crotch-straps?'.

We did a very extensive cost/benefit analysis of buying her gear compared to renting it. We break even on it after 10 rental sessions and we got some really good deals on her kit so far. With the diving rate we have planned, we'll be saving money in 3 months having bought compared to renting. Besides, resale value on the BP/W etc is better than for regular BC's so its a safer investment. And i did the whole 'buy-sell-buy right' cycle myself and didnt want to repeat that.

Besides- she isnt allowed a DSS single tank rig until i have one... she cant be getting all blinged out better than me!

 

[Anti-Hero]

You must be the dive buddy / boyfriend. KLJ - Don't listen to him, he's just jealous. Talk to Tobin at DSS.