New access rules to Eagles Nest and Burford.

[USMC CPL.]

ScubaBoard has a policy that is very different from its normal let-the-posters-take-care-of-the facts policy. ScubaBoard does not allow posts that advocate diving in caves without proper certifications.

Believe me, we have had them over the years. We have had posters claim that cave divers have silly rules requiring secret handshakes (or whatever) that are unnecessary. These people are around, and once they get that in their heads, there is no stopping them. The only thing we can do is keep them from infecting others with that nonsense.

There is a fundamental opposition in thinking with cave diving. If you get the proper training and do dives that are within the limits of that training, it is really surprisingly safe. If you don't get the training and think the rules are for someone other than you, the odds are pretty good you are going to die.

I fully understand that. My hats off to cave Divers 300 feet deep surrounded by rock. You guys have got it locked in tight.

 

[Joneill]

Check out this video. Gives you a good idea of what it's like.

Thanks - that convinces me that cave diving is not for me. I have no interest in risking my life to see virtually lifeless rock tunnels, silt, and rock piles, not to mention squeezing through openings that are barely passable. I'll stick to colorful tropical reefs and wrecks teeming with sea life

Seriously though - God bless you folks that enjoy cave diving - you are a special breed of explorers! My hat's off to you!

 

[USMC CPL.]

Thanks - that convinces me that cave diving is not for me. I have no interest in risking my life to see virtually lifeless rock tunnels, silt, and rock piles, not to mention squeezing through openings that are barely passable. I'll stick to colorful tropical reefs and wrecks teeming with sea life

Seriously though - God bless you folks that enjoy cave diving - you are a special breed of explorers! My hat's off to you!

I like the rock formations and such but like you this type of diving is not for me.

 

[boulderjohn]

Eagles Nest is an unusual environment, and what makes it unusual is what causes the problems.

As you enter the actual cave area, and as you progress through what would be a normal penetration for someone diving typical open circuit doubles, the cave is not particularly difficult in comparison to other caves.

But it is deep. So you need to add in the complication of requiring trimix and decompression to the relatively easy cave dive. As far as that is concerned by iself, it is a relatively easy trimix/decompression dive when compared to ocean deco dives.

So you have a combination of two different technical diving skills, thus requiring a diver with both skills, which is more rare than you might think. This leads to the possibility of someone thinking they can teach trimix to non-cave divers there, which is how we got to one of our more recent tragedies. It also leads to untrained divers like the father and son team thinking they had the skills to do the relatively simple cave work--it was the deep diving inexperienced that really got them in trouble.

Now, go a little farther into the cave, and you get the double whammy--highly difficult cave skills along with major decompression obligations. At that point, you better have your ducks in a row.

 

[KevinNM]

AJ once told me that most of the restrictions look worse in the videos than they are in reality. (I'll take his word as I'll probably never see them myself.) Still, very deep and a long way from the exit. And some parts of the cave can seriously silt out for longer than you have gas if you screw up.

 

[PfcAJ]

AJ once told me that most of the restrictions look worse in the videos than they are in reality. (I'll take his word as I'll probably never see them myself.) Still, very deep and a long way from the exit. And some parts of the cave can seriously silt out for longer than you have gas if you screw up.

I said that or another AJ?

Eh, thats probably something I'd say

it's still no joke in there, though. It'll eat your lunch.

 

[KevinNM]

I said that or another AJ?

Eh, thats probably something I'd say

it's still no joke in there, though. It'll eat your lunch.

It was you. And I certainly am not disputing that.

 

[kensuf]

Pardon the ignorance of a non cave diver. I have read about eagles nest and the Divers who have died in there. Can people not tell the difference between qualified Divers and the ones that thought they could dive a system like that and get themselves killed because they had no business being there.

These guys died there. They had no business being there, but they dressed the part.

The general population would look at them and think they knew what they were doing.

People rarely decide that "today is the day I'm going get killed diving". They normally just fail to understand how dangerous what they are doing really is, often because they have gotten away with something kind of like it before. It's called normalization of deviance in the safety industry.

The two CCR divers who got killed deep inside the system a few months ago were different. They made a decision that proved much more dangerous than expected and then couldn't catch a break, but they had the gear, training and experience to go where they went and fully understood how serious a dive that was.

I'd argue that 2 of the 3 statements regarding the double fatality last October are correct, experience is the one I'd argue against. My understanding is they had less than 5 dives total in the system and they were going to a place that his bit more than one person in the ass.

 

[USMC CPL.]

These guys died there. They had no business being there, but they dressed the part.

View attachment 414066

The general population would look at them and think they knew what they were doing.



I'd argue that 2 of the 3 statements regarding the double fatality last October are correct, experience is the one I'd argue against. My understanding is they had less than 5 dives total in the system and they were going to a place that his bit more than one person in the ass.

It was those two I have been referring too. The public needs to hold them accountable for their own actions. Their actions killed them not the cave.

 

[CuzzA]

The problem is the media... The media sensationalized these stories for click bait. They created the buzz that something needs to be done, and the public buys in and we get to where we are today.