Never leave a diver behind

[Jim Kerr]

How about if we all get bar codes tatooed on our forheads or computer ID chips implanted so they can scan us on and off the boat.

 

[waynel]

After over 100 posts on this subject, I can't believe that anyone would not agree with the statement: "Never leave a diver behind." If a boat captain leaves a diver behind, he or she should never again be allowed to pilot a boat. Leaving any passenger of your vessel on the open seas behind is not a mistake, it is a dereliction of responsibility.

 

[merxlin]

After over 100 posts on this subject, I can't believe that anyone would not agree with the statement: "Never leave a diver behind." If a boat captain leaves a diver behind, he or she should never again be allowed to pilot a boat. Leaving any passenger of your vessel on the open seas behind is not a mistake, it is a dereliction of responsibility.

A great sentiment. And certainly one all captains should hold to religiously, and all that I know do. The fact is, $#!^ happens. Humans make mistakes. Get two humans making mistakes at the same time and chaos can and will ensue. The point of the thread was that most of the systems in place on most boats rely on humans, so how do you remove the human element, or at least the best redundancy to overcome the inevitable (although very infrequent) errors. It has been acknowledged that the Captain has final responsibility, regardless of who creates the problem.

There are few absolutes in the world. There are circumstances to every event. Sometimes there is a disregard for procedures and policies, sometime things just get done wrong.

If a boat captain leaves a diver behind, he or she should never again be allowed to pilot a boat.

Based on the facts the Coast Guard has the ability to make that happen, or depending on the circumstances, lesser penalties.

So do you have any suggestions for a better system than head counts, roll calls and diver tags?

 

[Teamcasa]

After over 100 posts on this subject, I can't believe that anyone would not agree with the statement: "Never leave a diver behind." If a boat captain leaves a diver behind, he or she should never again be allowed to pilot a boat. Leaving any passenger of your vessel on the open seas behind is not a mistake, it is a dereliction of responsibility.

That's not the point of this thread.
From the Original Poster:

Despite all efforts to the contrary, there is, occasionally, a diver or divers left behind by dive boats.
This thread is to explore ideas that satisfy Thass' "systems in place" that will work all the time, every time.
Bear in mind that in the case that precipitated this thread, people lied to the "head counter" who, believing the liars, counted a head that wasn't there. The head counter reported "all aboard" to the captain, and the captain believed him. The system in place must avoid deception, even intentional deception.
Some sticky wickets to consider in coming up with the "ultimate plan"
1. Just because someone says they're "present" doesn't mean they're present.
2. Just because all the tanks (or tags) are aboard doesn't mean all the bodies are.
3. Just because you told 'em to stand in one place doesn't mean they will.
4. There may be strangers in the group who aren't known to any of the crew.
5. Just because everybody was there 10 seconds ago doesn't mean they're still there now.
---
Rick

 

[Web Monkey]

So do you have any suggestions for a better system than head counts, roll calls and diver tags?

Lock-out/Tag-Out on the ignition. All the divers bring their own locks.

The captain could always rip it off in an emergency, but would have some explaining to do if he was short a diver . . .

Terry

 

[sdiver02]

Ho hum. Say it loud then it sounds like fact. There are two other threads going over certain incidents and the causes and possible causes- go boat bash over there. This thread was until now about how to make the system better, because mistakes are made. Sometimes divers aren't left, but only by luck. I believe the consensus was that head counts don't work. Count 1 person twice, and although you thought you had 18, you really have 17. That is the point of this thread.

Care to elaborate on the system you think is great on those two boats?

Sure no problem. I was on the Spree in I think 1994 finishing my DM course. What I remember was that the boat was well run and had allot of staff. They had 2 dm's on board 1 cook/dm on board and I think 2 captains. They utilized a marker board on the stern of the boat right behind the dive platform and signed every diver in and out of the water on the board. One of the DMs' was always quick to get to the platform to help the diver in & out of the water. I think I remember them checking every one twice a day by name against their role/manifest once during the day & once after the last dive. They were professional well organized and well equipped. I would dive the Spree again in a heartbeat. A large boat live aboard with a bunch of strangers is a challenge no way around it. You must have people that can be trusted with strong leadership skills. The Spree had the people on the trip I went on!

On a day charter boat the Captain must perform a role call utilizing the manifest before leaving the dock making eye contact with each passenger. The Captain is the one that is responsible not the 20 year old DM. If you are going to spend some time at the sight before moving the boat the Dm needs to perform a head count making sure everyone is OK and doesn't have any problems.Then before the boat is moved there are 2 head counts by 2 different people and 1 of the head counts must be performed by the Captain. The counts are done at the same time. You account for the people playing in the water swimming and snorkeling around the boat first and then focus on the people on the boat. If they won't quit moving stop the count and speak up let them know where not moving the boat until we get a proper head count and account for everyone on the boat. Saftey First. I don't care about tags, electronic equipment, tanks or any equipment it will all fail at some point, I care about the people. Nothing can replace a good Captain and DM/Mate that understand there is a time to play and a time to to their jobs and care about what they are doing. Adding tags, counting tanks, electronic braclets, just adds more excuses for the very few who don't.

 

[merxlin]

......Then before the boat is moved there are 2 head counts by 2 different people and 1 of the head counts must be performed by the Captain. The counts are done at the same time. You account for the people playing in the water swimming and snorkeling around the boat first and then focus on the people on the boat. (emphasis by Merxlin) If they won't quit moving stop the count and speak up let them know where not moving the boat until we get a proper head count and account for everyone on the boat.......

I'm not sure I would trust even two "head counts" that included people in the water, and not done by name against the manifest. It's tough enough when they are all in one spot. Do you do it again when those people in the water board the boat? If not how do you assure you didn't leave a snorkeler/swimmer?

I think that illustrates the problem we are talking about. That system seemed safe to you. To me it is unsafe.

 

[sdiver02]

In my statement I was getting ready to move the boat, so I don't think I was going to pull the tag line, anchor,ladders hang lines secure the stern and wave bye bye to the people in the water playing in the water. I think the next step before moving the boat would be to recall the swimmers and yes I will count them again even though it's usually only couple people. Getting a proper head count is difficult but must be done twice. If you don't want the people in the water while doing your head counts. Recall them.

On the lighter side 3 snorkels and some water proofing and your Harley will run underwater maybe better than mine runs on land.

 

[on_two_wheels]

Another vote for the more costly/high tech suggestion of a fingerprint scanner. Cost is offset quickly by legal fees from one lawsuit (even if won) and probably get a break on insurance for such a foolproof method.

 

[peterbj7]

A fingerprint scanner and salt water? The scanner on my new laptop lasted less than a month before it was destroyed by corrosion, and that's just from salt in the air. The computer's never been near a boat, and spends much of its time in an A/C room. People underestimate the harshness of the marine environment. I've seen "stainless steel" rails on boats corroded right through in three months.