Neutral and horizontal with guided dive op rental gear

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Part II of the answer to your question:
Based on my comment above: You don't. it is not up to the guide / op to achieve that. That is totally 100% on the diver. The guide is there to guide you on a dive and assist in the even you have issues under water. The guide can help you decide on weights, but its ultimately the divers responsibility to know what to do.

I don't think this is reflective of reality. Most divers are poorly trained. That's a topic we can certainly agree upon.

Most divers have really no clue.

I do see how vacation divers often look up to the dive guides. And if the dive guides say that they want to do weight checks (including distribution) as it is both a fun and safety issue, I expect most people will go along with it and everyone wins.

As always when these topics are discussed, I invite anyone who hasn't already done so to read the DAN 2016 report.

 

[Adobo]

Technique not equipment.
A lousy driver is always a lousy driver.

I dunno which lousy diver you are talking about. The gal I saw on the cattle boat was using a jacket BC and she was horizontal for the entire dive. And she was newly certified.

If you are seeing people in Asia who cannot manage to be horizontal, maybe the lousy divers are in asia. Or maybe it is lousy instructors.

Note: I don't do rental BCs. I do rental wings though. Like I said, if they had rental BP/Ws then I would rent those but rental jacket BCs, no thanks. I wouldn't wish those on my worst enemy.

 

[Andre171]

With the right amount of lead, there will be just a bit of air in the bcd. So the shape of the bcd doesn't matter.
Donning the gear does matter a lot. Tanks to high or low will affect and a loose or over the belly cummerbund destroys any kind of trim.

The points are lead and proper gear donning.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

With the right amount of lead, there will be just a bit of air in the bcd. So the shape of the bcd doesn't matter.
Donning the gear does matter a lot. Tanks to high or low will affect and a loose or over the belly cummerbund destroys any kind of trim.

The points are lead and proper gear donning.

Your alluding to the difference between center of mass, center of displacement, how cylinder placement plays a part and also the distribution of weight. It all has to come together for divers to comfortably and effortlessly remain horizontal/flat.

 

[Centrals]

I dunno which lousy diver you are talking about. The gal I saw on the cattle boat was using a jacket BC and she was horizontal for the entire dive. And she was newly certified.

If you are seeing people in Asia who cannot manage to be horizontal, maybe the lousy divers are in asia. Or maybe it is lousy instructors.

Note: I don't do rental BCs. I do rental wings though. Like I said, if they had rental BP/Ws then I would rent those but rental jacket BCs, no thanks. I wouldn't wish those on my worst enemy.

She was well trained and equipment has nothing to do with that. Good example. So you cannot dive horizontally without the use of BP/W?
As for the lousy divers: next time when you go diving take a look at those around you. I have been diving around SE Asia since 1996 and 90%+ divers I met were from outside Asia. You have never heard "Coral Triangle"? LOL.

 

[Adobo]

She was well trained and equipment has nothing to do with that. Good example. So you cannot dive horizontally without the use of BP/W?

I can dive just fine with just about any kind of BC. But, any kind of diving I do is precious to me. I have to invest a lot of time and energy (not to mention, money) to go diving, whether at home or on vacation. For that reason, I choose not to dive with what I consider crappy gear. If I have to bring what I would consider good gear on vacation, so be it.

As for the lousy divers: next time when you go diving take a look at those around you. I have been diving around SE Asia since 1996 and 90%+ divers I met were from outside Asia. You have never heard "Coral Triangle"? LOL.

Nope. Never heard of the coral triangle. I suppose I could google it but honestly, I already look up tons of, what for me would be, useless trivia.

I dive at home and on vacation. My buddies at home are really good divers. The people I see on the cattle boats in Hawaii tend to be, if not good divers, they are good enough divers. The only complaining I hear about crappy divers are on scubaboard. I am sure they are out there. I am just lucky enough not to be around them too much.

 

[Chavodel8en]

I would have weights in 5#, 4#, 3#, 2# and 1# to make it easy to come up with the best combination.

In my experience when I travel, this is an issue. Often you'll only get big weights, like 5# or 4#. Those are too big for 2 trim pockets - resulting in 8# on top - too much. And they can result in some overweighting in general. If I need 12 lbs in my main weight pockets, I'd have to use more weight if I cant fine tune it - so I might end up w/ 16# and be bottom heavy.

 

[Centrals]

I can dive just fine with just about any kind of BC. But, any kind of diving I do is precious to me. I have to invest a lot of time and energy (not to mention, money) to go diving, whether at home or on vacation. For that reason, I choose not to dive with what I consider crappy gear. If I have to bring what I would consider good gear on vacation, so be it.

It is NOT about crappy gear.
It is the knowledge/skill/technique/training that made the female beginner diver to dive horizontally with jacket(crappy?).
Gear is just a tool.
A skillful driver can turn a sharp corner better with a crappy car.

 

[Adobo]

It is NOT about crappy gear.
It is the knowledge/skill/technique/training that made the female beginner diver to dive horizontally with jacket(crappy?).

Honestly, I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

Can a diver configure themselves to be in proper horizontal trim using a a jacket BC? Yes. That is the example I have been giving for the past few posts - a new diver I was with on a cattle boat. She was wearing a jacket BC and she seemed like a perfectly good diver for someone with her experience.

Separately, you keep harping on jacket BCs being the norm. I don't care. I think they are crap. I don't think they are crap due to the horizontal orientation thing. I think they are crap for a variety of other reasons, despite the fact that you can get yourself trimmed out in them. When I go on vacation, I bring my own gear as I assume I will not be able to rent gear that I don't consider to be crap.

 

[happy-diver]

Why do you call yourself cattle, is this respectful of you or me or them
Do you fart a lot or moo or eat with your family, out of a common tub

a new diver I was with on a cattle boat