Neutral al80’s anyone?

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CPRC

Contributor
Messages
110
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29
Location
Raleigh, nc
# of dives
500 - 999
Does anyone have experience with these relative to standard al80s? Any comments, pros/cons?
 
Does anyone have experience with these relative to standard al80s? Any comments, pros/cons?
They’re trash. Poor as stages, overly heavy as normal sidemount bottles relative to gas capacity.
 
Does anyone have experience with these relative to standard al80s? Any comments, pros/cons?

Garbage tanks for literally everything.
They do not have a single pro, only cons.
They're as negative in the water as steel, but don't have the same capacity:weight ratio so you are carrying all of that extra weight with no gas benefit. They are too heavy to use as stages so they negate all of the benefits of sidemount diving with AL80's.
 
First off - that’s for straight opinion. But some f/up questions - with regard to the weight issue/overly heavy - would not that help with minimizing spine lead? What type/size cyl would you suggest for quarry and cavern fun diving? Not intending to stage dive or more technical uses.
 
First off - that’s for straight opinion. But some f/up questions - with regard to the weight issue/overly heavy - would not that help with minimizing spine lead? What type/size cyl would you suggest for quarry and cavern fun diving? Not intending to stage dive or more technical uses.

why do you say it's straight opinion?

Let's look at some specs to see why everyone thinks they're useless
Catalina C80-holds 77.4cf of gas at 3300psi, weighs 34.4lbs, is -0.2lbs buoyant when empty, and is 7.25"x25.1"
Catalina "normal" 80-holds 77.4cf of gas at 3000psi, weighs 31.6lbs, is 4lbs buoyant when empty, and is 7.25"x25.8"

No one likes Catalina AL80's, but Luxfers are 31.4lbs/+4.4lbs/26"

So with the C80 vs standard 80, you have a bottle that lets you shed 3.8lbs from your belt but is 2.8lbs heavier. Not sure that that is worth the risk of getting the bottle underfilled because it is a "high pressure" aluminum bottle and getting shorted on a fill *almost guaranteed at pretty much every dive shop because they just see an aluminum bottle and fill it to 3k*.
Alternatively, a Faber FX100 holds 100cf of gas at 3442psi, weighs 34.3lbs, is -0.6lbs when empty, and is 7.25"x25.4". So you have a tank that is essentially identical to the Neutral 80, but holds 30% more gas. The downside is they are more expensive, but if you want the most efficient tank in terms of gas volume:net weight, HP100's are ideal.
Also neutral 80's have basically no residual value because no one wants them. Used steel tanks don't depreciate at all.
 
why do you say it's straight opinion?

Let's look at some specs to see why everyone thinks they're useless
Catalina C80-holds 77.4cf of gas at 3300psi, weighs 34.4lbs, is -0.2lbs buoyant when empty, and is 7.25"x25.1"
Catalina "normal" 80-holds 77.4cf of gas at 3000psi, weighs 31.6lbs, is 4lbs buoyant when empty, and is 7.25"x25.8"

No one likes Catalina AL80's, but Luxfers are 31.4lbs/+4.4lbs/26"

So with the C80 vs standard 80, you have a bottle that lets you shed 3.8lbs from your belt but is 2.8lbs heavier. Not sure that that is worth the risk of getting the bottle underfilled because it is a "high pressure" aluminum bottle and getting shorted on a fill *almost guaranteed at pretty much every dive shop because they just see an aluminum bottle and fill it to 3k*.
Alternatively, a Faber FX100 holds 100cf of gas at 3442psi, weighs 34.3lbs, is -0.6lbs when empty, and is 7.25"x25.4". So you have a tank that is essentially identical to the Neutral 80, but holds 30% more gas. The downside is they are more expensive, but if you want the most efficient tank in terms of gas volume:net weight, HP100's are ideal.
Also neutral 80's have basically no residual value because no one wants them. Used steel tanks don't depreciate at all.

Yup. Just buy used HP100’s. If/when you decide to sell them for whatever reason, you’ll get your money out of them.

I’ve seen neutral AL80’s for sale a few times. They generally don’t move/sell quickly (locally...at least). That should tell you something (OP).

Literally the only downside (my two cents) of HP100’s is the price tag.
 
On the fun diving front, LP50s are fairly awesome.

he can't get cave fills in Raleigh unless he is getting it from a personal fill station... I wish Faber would make FX versions of those bottles...

@CPRC I apologize that I diverged from the actual sidemount tank discussion. I still maintain HP100's are the most versatile bottles all around, but for sidemount in particular, if you aren't doing anything that calls for all of that gas, then use standard al80's, preferably Luxfers. They are the most fun, most versatile, and easiest tanks to wrangle in sidemount. I'm not aware of any really good sidemount instructors anywhere near Raleigh, most of the ones that I have seen up there are garbage, so you'll have a much better time figuring it out with AL80's than with any other bottle.
 
How much gas do you want?

AL40s: easy to rig/unrig on land, need to readjust underwater as empty,
LP50s: tad heavier on land, more efficient on gas/weight and more gas, just stay put underwater.
AL72s: slimmer than AL80s
ST72s: good gas for weight
AL80s: available all over
LP85s: more neutral steel, good if can get cave fills
HP100s: lots of gas and very gas/weight efficient

I'd argue the 40s and 50s are the easiest to learn with, as they are small. They are roughly the gas and encumbrance of single backmount. So you are just adding sidemount, not also considerably more weight. (Ignoring cave filling the 50s.)

A downside of 40s and 50s is some shops charge a fill per tank. Which could get annoying over time. One shop here charges nitrox pe cuft, or two 40/50s for one on a fill card, so there is not a fill tax for tiny sidemount.
 
Thanks guys. I do own a pair of hp100s, guess I could get one valve swapped to a right. Need to consider that idea.

Tbone- earlier i meant “thanks” for the straight opinion. Truly appreciate all you guys taking a moment to give a few cents.

MichaelMC - great summary chart for me to consider. thank you. My gut tells me to purchase and practice (locally) with tanks that are the most commonly rented else where.
 

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