Negative entry vs Using a downline

[Kevrumbo]

I agree that hanging on the anchorline/upline being blown around like a kite is very stressful, especially bunched up with your team trying to do a deco gas switch. But the alternative may be a long wait on the surface for a chase boat pick-up, with potential sea state and weather conditions along with boat traffic complicating recovery.

Along with commercial shipping lanes/boat traffic, thick fog is also a contraindication for drifting deco . . .Find the anchorline/upline and stay with it! If you get lost or blown away by current, somebody in the team better have a surface deployed PLB (Personal Locater Beacon), and a handheld VHF radio (both can be stowed watertight inside an X-Scooter).

Sometimes you can have a bright sunny morning here in SoCal at the dock or when you splash in, and then the fog rolls in with rapidly deteriorating surface visibilty later on in the afternoon --often while you're at depth. Also, you don't want to put your boat crew at risk dodging freighters and supertankers especially if they have to launch a little chase RIB in the shipping lanes of the Ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach (the nation's two largest commercial ports). In these instances, it's mandatory that you stay on the anchorline or upline . . .seriously you're asking for trouble if you elect to drift.

There are other "unique" hazards elsewhere in the world as well: The captain of my liveaboard (2006) in the South China Sea “counseled” me after I was blown off the grappling hook/upline in ripping current. He discourages drifting deco not only because of container ship traffic in the shipping lanes to Singapore; he also warns that that dinghy you see with the crew holding AK-47's coming to your apparent rescue may not be the Indonesian Navy at all --but a boatload full of pirates curious about you & your orange SMB's in the water. . . (Not sure if he was kidding or not about the pirates, but he did make his point about Singapore, the busiest container ship port in the world).

 

[Hatul]

To be fair to Danvolker, in Cozumel they do encourage a prompt descent, but I still jump in with my BC inflated. For one thing I'm often passed my camera, but also I think it's safer to check things out in the water on the surface before descending. It's a final check in case I forgot something and gear can break during the jump. I don't want to learn of a problem when I'm 60 feet below and dropping.

I mentioned this before, but a case that sticks in my mind is a report of a diver using doubles who jumped in with BC empty and valve shut off who sank and drowned. In fact in our last Coz trip a dive staff turned off one of our diver's valve (by mistake) just before he jumped in.

 

[Phil_C]

I enjoy both drift dives, and dives at sites where there is a shot line, or anchor line to follow down. Horses for courses, at some sites it is fine to enter with air in the BC, gather together and descend as a group, and other sites where this will not work, equally I dive sites where we enter negative and make a quick descent and a drift ascent on an SMB at the end.

But to suggest that only one method is valid, or is worth doing, strikes me as both arrogant and naive in the extreme.

It also doesn't take into account that the reality of diving is such that a large number of divers are holiday divers only, or comparatively inexperienced in the variety and type of diving which they have undertaken, and many divers do not have the confidence or skill sets to handle a fast negative descent safely if anything goes wrong. For these types of diver double checking gear on the surface after entry and having the safe reference point of a shot line or anchor line vastly increases the safety factors on the dive for these types of diver.

I, like many on this forum dive regularly and in any different sets of conditions, so perhaps approach this from a different reference point - and I do favour negative entries in some situations and do consider them safe, but in other situations I wouldn't dream of doing one.

But then again there are some dives where I prefer my splits, and others where I will only dive solid fins ! - oops ! heresy - "Burn the witch".

Phil

 

[Storker]

there are some dives where I prefer my splits

You do know you're going to die, yes?

 

[Phil_C]

You do know you're going to die, yes?

One day YES !

But probably not from my splits, and with a bit of luck it will be quick and I won't see it coming ! - P

 

[dbulmer]

One day YES !

But probably not from my splits, and with a bit of luck it will be quick and I won't see it coming ! - P

Konichiwa - my name is Ninja Dave - just letting you know it can be ... arranged

 

[fnfalman]

I've done plenty of direct descends in SoCal water. Generally it's out in the far Channel Islands under rough sea and/or current.

As as far as losing buddies, we jump in one right after the other. Or make pre-plan to meet at the anchor after getting to the bottom.

Like me everything else, plan your dive and dive your plan. If you are not skilled enough to do direct descend under nasty conditions, then don't do it until you've gained experience. If you think that it's too dangerous for you to go then don't do it at all.

 

[T.C.]

One day YES !

But probably not from my splits, and with a bit of luck it will be quick and I won't see it coming ! - P

No, you don't get it. On a near future dive, your fins will latch themselves to a coral head, and strand you on the bottom. I've even heard of splits coming off and combining to choke the diver to death underwater.

Bad juju to dive splits...

 

[bowlofpetunias]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

As per request of OP moved to Advanced Discussions

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[Hickdive]

In my part of the world:

Descending without a shotline into a 30m+ wreck in 2m visibility is a sure way of missing the wreck every time. I don't dive to conduct circular searches either.

A skipper who can't drop the shot into the wreck reliably is a skipper with a very short shelf-life running dive charters.

As with most things in life, when in Rome do as the Romans do but I doubt Dan would want to dive where I dive. Mind you, I'd love to be a fly on the wall if he did visit here and insisted on using his techniques

There's only one wreck "locally" that really requires a negative entry and that is the Tabarka in Burra Sound, Orkney and here's what a negative entry on it looks like;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSmGnR0VpJc