Near Miss: Monastery 2/6/2011
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OP
I think you either misread or mistyped. We teach our students to always enter fully geared. In fact we only allow our divers to enter fins in hand when they're on club dives, never class dives. The instructors feel like their students should practice entering with fins on, even though it's a pain.
Personally I don't see any benefits to entering Monastery with fins off. If your ankles are under the water, just the mere suction from both the waves and the sand makes it near impossible for me to move back, when geared on scuba.
The decline in itself can put you off balance pretty easy as well, not even accounting for waves. The entry is also real short, so a fins on entry really isn't much of a chore IMO.
I feel that entering with fins on allow you the option to crawl out with your hands free, or swim out, depending on your situation.
It's how I was taught on my first Monastery dive (ankle slappers that day)
and it's how I do it to this day, no exceptions.
YYMV
OP
Fins on vs. fins off is a religious argument.
However, fins off, straps over your wrists, means you CAN crawl
out with your hands free, fins trailing behind. And fins off means
you can move faster to get in.
If you have fins with vents, you can put your fingers through
the vents and do one heck of a fast breaststroke.
And I agree with who ever said that if you can't enter fins off,
don't dive Monastery.
I couldn't agree more.
I'm certainly not trying to question your program - it sounds like a pretty in-depth, lengthy course. I'm definitely in favor of that.
Still though, I've seen so many divers at various beaches (yes, even Breakwater) get themselves into a significant amount of trouble by entering with fins on, walking backwards or sideways holding hands. There are two major issues with this type of entry...
- Not being able to see the incoming waves
- Once you start to tip over, recovering is significantly more difficult (especially if sand has partially buried your fin)
To add insult to injury, I've seen people so focused on the "rough water entry" that they start their entry in the middle of a pile of potentially very hazardous rocks.
I'm a PADI DM, so I understand that a lot of this comes down to the way the "rough water entry" is most commonly taught by PADI and other recreational agencies. That doesn't mean I think it a good idea, and truth be told it's the last thing I want to do in a rough entry situation. If it's too big to walk in with fins in hand and duck into the waves, I'm not going in - that means it's REALLY big.
P-DUB
New
Hey All,
Long time lurker, first time poster. Just signed up to give my two cents since I was one of the DITs responding to Kappa.
The entire situation was a CLASSIC case of what I have heard people call "Sacramento Syndrome". As Ryan said, a group of divers tried to launch a boat in about the same spot yesterday, and they ended up losing most of their skin gear, wrecking the boat pretty bad, and barely salvaging their SCUBA units. All of this after the park ranger next door told them that it was unwise to launch where they were. Beta in this situation was a more experienced diver, and Alpha and Kappa were both relatives visiting from out of town. They were "only going to be here for the weekend", and Beta wanted them to get some good diving in.
As I was setting up the circle for our debrief after a very successful training session in the waves for the rescue carries and procedures, with minimal machine washing, and a great skin dive, I noticed the 3 person team sitting on the beach, going through a disorganized "crash course" into Monastery diving. I noticed the kid sitting in his wetsuit, but it didn't even register that he could possibly be considering diving, especially where their units were set up: facing a massive rip and the full brunt of the surf zone. I figured he must have been beachmastering or something, maybe looking to go snorkel.
We get through the near entirety of the debrief when an instructor and I notice them heading straight for the foaming mouth of the rabbid Monsterary. We put the debrief on hold, and had the Basic students observe a difficult (and potentially hilarious) Monastery entry. It was all fun and games at first, a typical portrayal of inexperience meeting an advanced site: fins in hand, no timing of the incoming set, expensive camera gear within reach of the lapping waves, chilling in the impact zone, looking up the beach away from the incoming wave... Beta didn't even have his mask on, just his reg. But after Kappa took a gnarly hit/wash/recycle in the surf, losing a fin and mask in the process, with Beta coming back out to help him and being washed around in turn, we quickly realized this was trouble.
You see, the instructor and I suddenly saw that Kappa was indeed the kid we had seen sitting on the beach. We got up and started walking towards the divers, mor and more concerned. After the 3rd recycle of both Kappa and Beta, with Beta attempting to ditch his gear to help Kappa by tossing his fins and weight belt "up" the beach, only to have the gear and diver wash back out with Beta trying desperately to grab Kappa to gt him up the beach, I broke into a sprint to the site with the two instructors, Ryan and 3 or so Rescue students. Another DIT kept the rest of our class back, and two Rescue students went and got the Oxygen and First Aid kits, just as we had been rehearsing the whole morning.
I got the kid just as he yelled for help for the first time while being flushed back with the rip into the waves. You could tell he was utterly exhausted, eyes closed, no mask, reg out of his mouth. It was actually Beta who was holding on to him and kept shoving the reg back in his mouth. I was standing about knee deep in my jeans, telling the kid to stay calm with one of the instructors, while a beachgoer was also at the scene. Beta was desperately trying to push Kappa up the beach, but they were dead in the gnarliest rip of that side of the beach. I'm sure Beta thought the elevator ride would be worth it when he first picked the entry spot.
Kappa and Beta got hit by a huge wave, which luckily washed Kappa within reach of myself and the instructor. We grabbed his 1st stage and initiated an improvised 4 person carry up the slope, with the next wave helping get him a bit buoyant and into our arms.
I had an arm, and looking at this kid's face really hit home hard to me. He was breathing as hard as he could off the reg, absolutely to the limit of his physical ability; a dead man under any other circumstance. I'm still shaking from that even hours later. Had Beta come to Monastery and done that mid-week without anyone around, no doubt in my mind that kid gets added to the list.
The instructor took charge, an incredible show of poise and control in an emergency, something as a DIT I needed to see. We stripped him of his BC, got his air reading, helped him out of his hood, gloves, and got him sat down up the beach. Since had had swallowed a lot of water, the instructor and Rescue students with the kits helped him with 02, while his mother, came up the berm to see what was going on. Luckily for her, she didn't see any of the ordeal go down.
With Kappa taken care of and out of immediate danger, I turned my focus back on Beta and Alpha. Alpha, the dad, had spent the entire time that his son was near-drowning beyond the surf zone, being pushed further to the middle of the beach by the current, and it was only when Beta made a daring mask-less and fin-less reentry to recover his BC and fins that Alpha noticed anything might be wrong enough for him to do anything. No comment.
With two divers back in the water and headed towards the gnarlier waves at the center of the beach, I took the role of guiding the two to a safe zone away from rips and waves. Without fins, progress was slow, and Beta seemed to be preoccupied with something. Both Alpha and Beta end up making their way up the beach, Alpha crawling out like a good novice, and Beta determined to annoy me by walking out and nearly getting tumbled in the process.
I helped Alpha out of his gear, as he was exhausted as well from the crawl, while Beta was asking to borrow his mask and fins to go and search for his mask, weight belt, and Kappa's mask, in the surf zone. I said that maybe now would be a good time to just sit for a bit. He said "Yeah, but that mask was like 60 bucks". Determined to annoy me.
The instructor advised the kid's mother to get him to CHOMP to rule out secondary drowning. Divemaster Beta comes over and says that it's not a problem, that the kid is fine. With that same vain, the kid, who is now dressed, is instructed to carry a tank back to the car, in the sun, on the beach, instead of, oh I dunno, sitting down and being catered to as someone who may still die from being pummeled by waves for 5 minutes.
We called DAN, and advised the mother after about 15 minutes of not driving the kid to CHOMP that thy recommended getting checked out. Beta dismissed it again, and returned to the sea to find his gear.
Finally, a Beta came over, another diver of theirs in tow with cigarette in hand, and thanked the instructor and myself for our help. "They were just in for the weekend and I wanted to take them diving here. I guess I need to learn about when I can take people here". We asked how Kappa was feeling. "Oh, he's fine, this was his first [you may think "shore dive" is next...] NEAR - DROWNING experience, so he was a bit shaken, but he's fine", all while smiling and being as nonchalant as possible...
That was the nearest call I've ever seen diving, and the first time I've seen someone who would have died without immediate help in the waves. His screams are still in my mind. I'm still pumping with adrenaline typing this novel. I just needed to get this written out to offgas about it. So much of it was sheer idiocy on Beta's part, and so much of it was complacency from diver dad and weekend warriors. Inexperienced divers with overconfident "leaders" is such a dangerous thing.
To James above, I usually walk and walk out when I'm at Monastery, but I wouldn't have today, and especially not where they were entering. Far South, far North, sure. Not mid-beach.
Otherwise, everything Ryan said he learned, I did too. A good, maybe even necessary experience. But so help me if someone ever sees me treat any of my future students/friends/family with so much disregard for their safety, you hereby have permission to burst my ear drums.
Thanks for reading my confession.
Long time lurker, first time poster. Just signed up to give my two cents since I was one of the DITs responding to Kappa.
The entire situation was a CLASSIC case of what I have heard people call "Sacramento Syndrome". As Ryan said, a group of divers tried to launch a boat in about the same spot yesterday, and they ended up losing most of their skin gear, wrecking the boat pretty bad, and barely salvaging their SCUBA units. All of this after the park ranger next door told them that it was unwise to launch where they were. Beta in this situation was a more experienced diver, and Alpha and Kappa were both relatives visiting from out of town. They were "only going to be here for the weekend", and Beta wanted them to get some good diving in.
As I was setting up the circle for our debrief after a very successful training session in the waves for the rescue carries and procedures, with minimal machine washing, and a great skin dive, I noticed the 3 person team sitting on the beach, going through a disorganized "crash course" into Monastery diving. I noticed the kid sitting in his wetsuit, but it didn't even register that he could possibly be considering diving, especially where their units were set up: facing a massive rip and the full brunt of the surf zone. I figured he must have been beachmastering or something, maybe looking to go snorkel.
We get through the near entirety of the debrief when an instructor and I notice them heading straight for the foaming mouth of the rabbid Monsterary. We put the debrief on hold, and had the Basic students observe a difficult (and potentially hilarious) Monastery entry. It was all fun and games at first, a typical portrayal of inexperience meeting an advanced site: fins in hand, no timing of the incoming set, expensive camera gear within reach of the lapping waves, chilling in the impact zone, looking up the beach away from the incoming wave... Beta didn't even have his mask on, just his reg. But after Kappa took a gnarly hit/wash/recycle in the surf, losing a fin and mask in the process, with Beta coming back out to help him and being washed around in turn, we quickly realized this was trouble.
You see, the instructor and I suddenly saw that Kappa was indeed the kid we had seen sitting on the beach. We got up and started walking towards the divers, mor and more concerned. After the 3rd recycle of both Kappa and Beta, with Beta attempting to ditch his gear to help Kappa by tossing his fins and weight belt "up" the beach, only to have the gear and diver wash back out with Beta trying desperately to grab Kappa to gt him up the beach, I broke into a sprint to the site with the two instructors, Ryan and 3 or so Rescue students. Another DIT kept the rest of our class back, and two Rescue students went and got the Oxygen and First Aid kits, just as we had been rehearsing the whole morning.
I got the kid just as he yelled for help for the first time while being flushed back with the rip into the waves. You could tell he was utterly exhausted, eyes closed, no mask, reg out of his mouth. It was actually Beta who was holding on to him and kept shoving the reg back in his mouth. I was standing about knee deep in my jeans, telling the kid to stay calm with one of the instructors, while a beachgoer was also at the scene. Beta was desperately trying to push Kappa up the beach, but they were dead in the gnarliest rip of that side of the beach. I'm sure Beta thought the elevator ride would be worth it when he first picked the entry spot.
Kappa and Beta got hit by a huge wave, which luckily washed Kappa within reach of myself and the instructor. We grabbed his 1st stage and initiated an improvised 4 person carry up the slope, with the next wave helping get him a bit buoyant and into our arms.
I had an arm, and looking at this kid's face really hit home hard to me. He was breathing as hard as he could off the reg, absolutely to the limit of his physical ability; a dead man under any other circumstance. I'm still shaking from that even hours later. Had Beta come to Monastery and done that mid-week without anyone around, no doubt in my mind that kid gets added to the list.
The instructor took charge, an incredible show of poise and control in an emergency, something as a DIT I needed to see. We stripped him of his BC, got his air reading, helped him out of his hood, gloves, and got him sat down up the beach. Since had had swallowed a lot of water, the instructor and Rescue students with the kits helped him with 02, while his mother, came up the berm to see what was going on. Luckily for her, she didn't see any of the ordeal go down.
With Kappa taken care of and out of immediate danger, I turned my focus back on Beta and Alpha. Alpha, the dad, had spent the entire time that his son was near-drowning beyond the surf zone, being pushed further to the middle of the beach by the current, and it was only when Beta made a daring mask-less and fin-less reentry to recover his BC and fins that Alpha noticed anything might be wrong enough for him to do anything. No comment.
With two divers back in the water and headed towards the gnarlier waves at the center of the beach, I took the role of guiding the two to a safe zone away from rips and waves. Without fins, progress was slow, and Beta seemed to be preoccupied with something. Both Alpha and Beta end up making their way up the beach, Alpha crawling out like a good novice, and Beta determined to annoy me by walking out and nearly getting tumbled in the process.
I helped Alpha out of his gear, as he was exhausted as well from the crawl, while Beta was asking to borrow his mask and fins to go and search for his mask, weight belt, and Kappa's mask, in the surf zone. I said that maybe now would be a good time to just sit for a bit. He said "Yeah, but that mask was like 60 bucks". Determined to annoy me.
The instructor advised the kid's mother to get him to CHOMP to rule out secondary drowning. Divemaster Beta comes over and says that it's not a problem, that the kid is fine. With that same vain, the kid, who is now dressed, is instructed to carry a tank back to the car, in the sun, on the beach, instead of, oh I dunno, sitting down and being catered to as someone who may still die from being pummeled by waves for 5 minutes.
We called DAN, and advised the mother after about 15 minutes of not driving the kid to CHOMP that thy recommended getting checked out. Beta dismissed it again, and returned to the sea to find his gear.
Finally, a Beta came over, another diver of theirs in tow with cigarette in hand, and thanked the instructor and myself for our help. "They were just in for the weekend and I wanted to take them diving here. I guess I need to learn about when I can take people here". We asked how Kappa was feeling. "Oh, he's fine, this was his first [you may think "shore dive" is next...] NEAR - DROWNING experience, so he was a bit shaken, but he's fine", all while smiling and being as nonchalant as possible...
That was the nearest call I've ever seen diving, and the first time I've seen someone who would have died without immediate help in the waves. His screams are still in my mind. I'm still pumping with adrenaline typing this novel. I just needed to get this written out to offgas about it. So much of it was sheer idiocy on Beta's part, and so much of it was complacency from diver dad and weekend warriors. Inexperienced divers with overconfident "leaders" is such a dangerous thing.
To James above, I usually walk and walk out when I'm at Monastery, but I wouldn't have today, and especially not where they were entering. Far South, far North, sure. Not mid-beach.
Otherwise, everything Ryan said he learned, I did too. A good, maybe even necessary experience. But so help me if someone ever sees me treat any of my future students/friends/family with so much disregard for their safety, you hereby have permission to burst my ear drums.
Thanks for reading my confession.
this is something that i was speaking about. as i understand, you only teach your students to enter fully geared, and i see some benefits to this. However, what if one of those students wants to go on a club dive?? are the club dives ranked by experience? say one of those students who has always entered the water fully geared comes along. now when the other members enter the water only partially geared they may want to do just the same and this is where the trouble starts. when can students practice entering with fins off??
i am not trying to change your opinion about how to enter, but i think that students should be given more than just one option for ways to do things. it may be the same reason that the divers that needed rescue entered the water the way they did. maybe they never were told about entering the water without their fins, but have seen other divers, possibly some of us that have commented already, enter the water without fins and wanted to try it.
OP
This is true. Our program's not perfect.
Our club dives are run by a wonderful chem tutor who graduated from our university through the same program.
To even be allowed into the club you must have taken a scuba class through the university or TA-ed a major part of it. So naturally a majority divers know one another. This allows for a lot of info and mentoring being passed around to those who had just been certified the previous quarter as well as others of various experience.
I'll add that there are plenty of divers (myself included) who got their Basic OW from outside the program, so there's plenty of alt. techniques circulating around.
OP
Mhmm I understand the other side of it. The only sites the class dives at are Breakwater, Cowell's Beach in Santa Cruz, and wherever the boat takes us for the Adv. Boat dive (usually Eric's Pinnacle)
This doesn't give students a wide range of sites to see, so that is the program's downfall.
What I think is our strong point is we do a very thorough SEABAG and really hammer into everyone present where the hazards are, the good entry and exit points, emergency procedures etc etc
When we do shuffle in for our entry, we go sideways, facing our buddies. (I think holding hands for an entry is a bad idea as well)
Of course if you fall the only thing to do is to "pretend like you ment to do that and swim out"
I have yet to see anyone fall on entry though.
We're not perfect. But we try our best to keep everyone in the big class safe. So in that sense we do a fins on entry to give one less tasks to manage with their hands and more focus on their entry.
I have been rolled at Monastery, and it can be a frightening experience. I was not by any means a novice diver, and I had my mask and regulator, and retained my composure until that dratted Monastery sand got into my reg and it began to freeflow, and my safe time suddenly got measured in seconds.
It is a deceptively inviting beach, but the topography UNDER the water is unfriendly in the extreme.
I am glad you guys were there to save the young man, and the nonchalance of his relatives would completely nonplus me, if I weren't an ER doc and didn't see similar things on a regular basis.
It is a deceptively inviting beach, but the topography UNDER the water is unfriendly in the extreme.
I am glad you guys were there to save the young man, and the nonchalance of his relatives would completely nonplus me, if I weren't an ER doc and didn't see similar things on a regular basis.
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