Near miss diving doubles for 2nd time

[dumpsterDiver]

Overly negative double steel tanks in deep (freshwater) with a wetsuit, and no redundant buoyancy and no 100% oxygen on site. These are important facts that allow knowledgeable people to conclude that the instructor sucks.

I've personally seen so much terrible technical dive training (as I have observed from the vantage point of a divemaster, deck crew, safety diver etc.) that I have very little desire to pursue ANY technical dive training. I swear I'm not sure who scares me more; the instructors or the students.

I've pretty much just read stuff on the internet and GRADUALLY done more challenging dives. I swear that sometimes it is probably safer to teach yourself than put your safety in the hands of a technical instructor whose qualifications are not readily verifieable by the student.

At least if you teach yourself, you are careful about only extending your personal limits a little at a time and WON"T BE TEMPTED TO BLINDLY FOLLOW SOME YAHOO TECH INSTRUCTOR. I could tell a bunch of wacko tech diver instructor stories that I have personally witnessed over the years, in one of which the student just barely surived (extended hospital stay, permanent disability type of injury).

35 years ago, I was diving double steel tanks and a dry suit solo at 15 yrs old in 130 feet on wrecks with just a junior certification card, but I had slowly progressed AND I also had very qualified mentors to give me guidance along the way.

If someone is going to pursue formal instruction, it is so critical to find a good instructor for this stuff.

 

[Thalassamania]

TSandM always provides great posts.

I was surprised that after complementing your own training, TSandM, you add:

"But my first reaction to reading this story was that all of you should step back and reevaluate your underlying diving skill, and whether you are really ready to step up to technical diving."

Do you mean the posters on this thread? Seems like nearly all have been pretty darn appropriate and helpful, and some have come from technical divers. (Thalassamania comes to mind)

I'm not sure of your meaning.

EDIT: Gombessa may have clarified (in the next post) to whom you were referring.
Sorry for misunderstanding.

Listen to TSandM. Her training is without a doubt probably the best training you can get. I found an instructor that mentored me with an equal level of attention to details often missed. I have a deep amount of respect for GUE and DIR as a training agency but if you are diving the setup without the mentality then you are not taking the best part away from their philosophy. I would recommend looking into one of these agencies as a transition to tech if in fact you plan to continue diving with the expectation of having better results.

I don't consider myself a "technical diver." I think that the phrase, today, is all but meaningless. Garth expresses the problem well, "Technical Diving" is now the gear and not the mentality. You can be a highly effective "technical diver" in a wetsuit with an AIR-2 and a poodle vest with split fins, I know ... I've done it ... well, if you nix the split fins.

 

[sardiverdan]

Not sure if I missed this part or not, what class were you taking? When I see a post of 300' max depth I am going to assume you are not going to be diving that deep by the end of this class. Like others have stated, diving doubles in a wetsuit is not a good idea. If you can't swim your rig to the surface with no assistance from a b/c while in a wetsuit, you are asking for trouble. Many have bashed the instructor and you say its not his fault; however, any "tech" instructor that would put a student in a wetsuit with doubles in those conditions is someone I would never dive with. I'm not sure how they dive out there in your part of the world but out here, if a student thumbs a dive the dive is over. Not wait a minute for this drill to end or lets take our time and swim over here where you can't see. This instructor is going to get someone hurt if they keep this up, although they may already have. I have many people look at my tech gear when I am out diving and they all want the gear until I tell them how much I paid for it. I know there are many on here that get gear on sale and piece meal things together to work but if you purchase top of the line gear, a good tech setup will cost thousands if not 10's of thousands by the time you have everything. That is something to keep in mind as you move from recreational into technical diving. Its kind of like the old racing saying "how fast do you want to go" if you want to play your gonna have to pay. Paying over 100 dollars for a fill for a tech dive is not uncommon. I guess what I am trying to say here is that until you can purchase some of your own gear like a drysuit, regs, doubles, lift bags...and the list goes on, maybe you should hold off on the tech diving. All rented gear and tech diving does not usually mix well together.

According to your profile you should have plenty of dives under your belt for this type of training. It is unfortunate that you had such a bad time with your first tech dives. I would not let this incident deter you from continuing your education. I would; however, find another instructor in your area and talk to other tech divers and see who they would send people to. If nothing else at least invest in a good drysuit and undergarments because if you intend to dive deep and deco you are going to need one.

 

[DivingCRNA]

Dude,

There is a guy just like you here and on another board, but at the OW level. He just got OW cert and did what you are doing. You post all the problems you had. Then the voice of experience in the form of many Tec Divers tells you that you are endangering yourself. Then you get defensive.

No instructor is bound to give you a C-Card for Tec. Every other specialty can be pretty much a gimme. People can and do fail Tec, Cavern and Cave. As they should.

You are a DM with 160+ Dives "all over the world" and have been to 120 feet. I should not have been, but was going much deeper before Tec. We have deep lakes around here.

You are also in rental doubles and in doubles for the second time ever. I dove doubles for 3 years before taking Tec. Find a mentor to show you doubles and get some experience in them, then go back.

A DM with 160+ dives "All over the world" should dang well know that you cannot dive 39 degree water in a wetsuit of any kind. Especially a long Tec training dive.

You probably need a year or two to get your buoyancy, gear and skills in general together before you do Tec. I am afraid you will end up in accident analysis if you do not.

This comes from a guy who wanted to take Tec and was told to finish DM first to sharpen buoyancy, self sufficiency and gas consumption. I did not get upset. I did it and I am glad I did. Please take this advice.

 

[TSandM]

Sorry; my post saying "all of you should step back" was specifically directed to the OP and his classmates.

And BTW, I agree that a technical instructor who does not have oxygen available on site is really dubious. I believe (although I'm not entirely sure) that even my husband, a recreational diving instructor, is required to have oxygen available on site when teaching. At least, we have always done that.

 

[SmpleGreen]

Few things. First of all, there was 100% O2 available. My deco bottle was filled with 50%, so when the instructor returned to the water to do in water deco and rejoin the other students, he suggested I put on warm clothes and stay on the deco bottle for 10 minutes since it was readily available. He said that we were well within no-deco limits, and once the fear of embolism subsided, he seemed relatively unconcerned about DCS. However, there was a trailer full of his own gas blending equipment on site that he was qualified to use, so there was definitely 100% O2 on site. I asked later whether it would have been bad to stay on the 50% O2 longer, or to have used 100% O2, and he seemed to suggest that he thought the chances of a problem were low, and that the deco bottle breathing had just been out of an abundance of caution.

When the instructor went back in the water, I had also asked what I should do if I started to have signs of DCS or embolism. He said to call 911. As it turned out, my cell phone didn't get reception where we were... so had something happened, I might have been pretty #*@&##. Eventually some of his buddies who were in the area showed up to keep an eye on me, but clearly there was a window where if I had become symptomatic there could have been a real problem.

As far as the inflation at depth, I think the instructor was shocked at how lucid I was once we reached the surface. Once we got to the top, I fully inflated my wing, ripped off my hood, and started trying to calm my breathing down, while at the same time swearing and freaking out over the fact that I had just ascended from a deep dive with no stops. I think the instructor thought the swearing was directed at him (it wasn't), and explained that he had signaled me at depth and that I hadn't responded, at which point he had reconnected my inflator, inflated my wing and had been unable to get me to let go of him, so he had followed me to the surface. As many have pointed out, it is unclear how wise a decision this was.... I think the computer download will shed some more light on the specifics. I asked the instructor if he would mind sending me his computer download as well, and he told me that the specific computer he was diving that day didn't have that option. It is unclear whether that is true, or just CYA. In any case, I think he realized at the surface that he might have misread my level of distress at depth, since I hadn't returned his hand signals (mask flooded + hyperventilation/panic = can't see hand signals or respond to verbal/tactile queues).

I should note that I am trying to be as open as possible to everyone's suggestions/opinion/reactions, and for the most part think this thread has been overwhelmingly constructive. I have no problem with people criticizing my choices or those of others, but I just want to make sure it is done in a constructive way. I read too many of these threads where the entire point becomes to flame the actions of other people, instead of pointing out where they went wrong and, more importantly, what the correct action might have been. It is easy to laugh at other people's mistakes....it's a different story when you are put in a stressful situation at depth yourself and asked to make snap judgments.

The ultimate point of all of this is to help people become better divers... so the the extent that your post(s) does that, I have no problem. I just want to make sure this thread isn't 200 posts about how many stupid instructors there are out there, and how everyone in general is just so stupid. It may even be true, but it gets boring and redundant, and doesn't really help anyone learn anything.

 

[gNats]

So this doesn't happen to you:

Interview your tec instructor. Verify he/she has the credentials and support to teach tec courses.

Get your own gear. If you are unsure of what to get, discuss it with other tec divers or your instructor. Understand the purpose, benefit and drawback to every piece of gear.

Don't act like a sheep and trust others completely. Tec training is about becoming self sufficient. And that doesn't just apply to gear. It applies to thinking. It you don't have the nerve to question the judgement of others (including an instructor, DM, or buddy) then stay in recreational diving. There is no room for error.


You are paying for the instruction. If you feel you need more practice or are not ready to do the next skill, put the brakes on and demand that you progress at a safe speed for you. This may require private lessons. So be it. Tec diving requires more funds than rec diving. If you can't afford the costs, stay out.

 

[Garth]

He left you at the surface and went back underwater?

I think it has been stressed aptly. You should find another instructor. It also sounds as if there were too many students in the water without sufficient uw DMs.

The more you defend what happened, the worse it sounds, and the more careless your instructor behaved.

I agree it gets worse and worse. I'm trying to see when the first mistake was made and i'm coming up with before you hit the water.

I understand that you don't want this thread to be about bashing instructors. There are a lot of good ones out there. I guess as I read this thread I am thinking that if what you say is true, you should do more than find another instructor but report him to the training agency he works for so that this can be sorted out.

Seriously though... he left you at the surface for any length of time without anyone around? and your cell phone didn't work? I can't say the words I want to right now.

Forget about having enough DM in the water, i'd like to know how many technical instructors there were and how many students. And why he thought it was okay to leave you at the surface.

Another thing that doesn't add up. My instructor went over basic procedures before hitting the water. At 50 ft we would get neutral and check gear as well as on the surface before starting. Seems as though your group should have given the okay signal before starting manifold drills at 90ft in 39degree water. (you know to see if everyone is okay first as this was a class).

 

[gNats]

More ways to prevent this:

When diving a new location, determine cell coverage before you get there or at the very least before you get wet. Ask your instructor for the procedures if there is an accident. If he doesn't have a good plan, stay dry that day.


Sometimes DCS doesn't show up for hours or the next day. It's your life. If you think you took a hit don't sit around thinking about it. Call DAN. Don't have DAN? Get it.

Inspect your gear twice. An inflator hose coming apart is a silly mistake made by new OW students.

Never complete any dive with questionable gear. Regardless whether it is borrowed, rented, or your own gear. Inspect all gear for rattles, loose parts, or worn, frayed connections. Fix. Replace. Or stay dry.

 

[gNats]

Also:

Tec training at a minimum includes:

1. Dive experience. A minimum number of dives.
2. Rescue diver
3. Efr training

Along with deep and nitox certs (or equiv)

If you don't know the answer to the proper use and administering of 100% or less of O2, you are not ready to tec dive.