Near miss diving doubles for 2nd time

[Garth]

You still haven't answered my question... is this for real??

and go back to your book and check what one ATA is. You are breathing it right now.
willing to tell us what agency?

 

[Garth]

valve drill at 90ft in 39 degree water with a student who doesn't know how to do it = no instructor I know.

 

[Gombessa]

I have no problem determining proper lead for neutral buoyancy with my own jacket BCD/single steel or aluminum tank.

However, as I mentioned previously, this was basically my first time diving steel doubles with bp/w. This is not my own equipment, so I was relying on other people to tell me what I needed to dive it properly.

SmpleGreen, that's really the point here. In addition to the helpful advice and observations others have made, the fact is, at this point in your diving, you should be well past the point where you walk into a dive shop to rent gear and have them eyeball your frame and hand you a medium (or x-large) wetsuit and 15 (or 30) pounds of lead. You need to understand what you're diving, and you can't just take the attitude that it's OK to rely on someone else to "tell you what you need," even if the gear is all new to you. What is the buoyancy of the exposure protection used? Of the steel tanks and the stage? Of the gas inside of the tanks at the start of the dive? Of the backplate and associated rigging? Of the suit once it's compressed at depth (at 3ATA? 5ATA?)? If the shop you rented from didn't go over this, your instructor most definitely should have, before you ever get in the water with it, and particularly since you've never dived the equipment before.

But in the first instance, and more importantly, the most troubling aspect for me is that (at least as presented in your posts), you yourself never asked these questions of anybody. Of course you won't know the answers, since the equipment is new to you, but these are the same questions you needed to ask in order to properly weight yourself and balance your rig when diving a single tank, and they're ever so much more important now.

I hope you don't feel like you're getting dogpiled here; we're trying to help, but at least some of us feel that some of what we're hearing in this story is very disturbing, and it really seems like you're taking on way too much new stuff (gear, instruction, skills, conditions) at once, and really need to slow down quite a bit. Looking over my logbook, I had about 50 dives in doubles before approaching 90ft, and before putting them on for the first time, I spent a good amount of time researching the equipment and buoyancy characteristics so I could have a ballpark estimate of proper weighting and a basic understanding of the gear I was approaching. While you certainly don't need to take the same approach I did, my impression from what you've presented is that these dives were way too much on the other side of caution and preparedness for comfort.

 

[Ben_ca]

Summary: You can't tech dive with rental gear

 

[SmpleGreen]

Garth....there is a difference between 1 ATM relative and absolute. 1 ATM fsw = 33ft (we were in a quarry...so if you want to get technical it was really 34 feet of fresh water). Whether 33 fsw is ACTUALLY 2 ATM absolute is an irrelevant point.

Technical diving in general is about self sufficiency and watching out for your own ass. There are many technical divers who refuse to dive with a buddy at all, especially of the wreck diving variety. While I would love to blame this whole experience on my instructor, or my gear, or the fact that the quarry wasn't 70 degrees and sunny, the fact is that we all choose to do this of our own accord, and we accept the consequences. If you end up bent and in a wheelchair, or worse dead, for whatever reason, it will be because you chose to go diving, regardless of how bad your buddy, or instructor, or deity of choice $&%*$# you.

Your post implies that this was all the instructor's fault. While I think there are certain things the instructor could have done better, we are all human, and humans make mistakes, especially under pressure and non-ideal circumstances. The point of this post is for all of us to get better, student and instructor alike. I would like to become an instructor one day, and I hope that people will not be as unforgiving as you seem to be. I think given the circumstances the instructor did what he thought was right, and in general those choices were not what I would deem negligent.

At the end of the day, I am mostly upset at myself for not seeing far enough ahead to avoid this mishap. That is the reason I am posting this thread, because I want to get better at anticipating, and part of that is soliciting the advice of people who have different experiences than myself. I know this sounds like a bunch of hippie crap, but all too often I feel like this board devolves into flame throwing about how stupid some instructor or person is (Yes, I have posted here before. Yes, I created a new account so that people can't figure out who I'm talking about regarding this incident). The fact is that we can all get better.... and once you reach the point where you think you know everything, that's when you're going to get yourself into more trouble than you can get out of.

 

[Garth]

Okay well let me clear it up then.

... it was your fault.

 

[Garth]

I think you might have been narced too.

 

[Garth]

I don't blame the instructor for what mistakes you made but you cannot deny that putting you in a 39 degree environment in a wetsuit as you suggested the shop put you in is a serious safety issue. That is only one of more than 10 things that shouldn't have happened which leads me to believe that everyone in the group had no control over anything.

I was watching a deco class the other day at a quarry and was surprised to see a diver attempt to follow two others who had already descended. almost 5 minutes of kicking on the surface to get down and no one thought about the fact that he as underweighted?

 

[gsk3]

Technical diving in general is about self sufficiency and watching out for your own ass. There are many technical divers who refuse to dive with a buddy at all, especially of the wreck diving variety.

This statement alone proves that you need to find a different instructor. Perhaps one who teaches for GUE or UTD (e.g. an actual DIR organization), rather than one who impresses on the students how "DIR" their gear configuration is. DIR is a holistic philosophy in which the first priority is team. There are other ways to learn technical diving, but the most respected ones (DIR or not) all seem to emphasize team first.

I think it is admirable that you posted this, knowing you would surely face criticism from random folks on the internet. I think it is admirable that you want to take the blame for the situation. I don't find it admirable that you are unwilling to listen to what many folks here are staying--this was not a situation you should have been put in in the first place.

 

[Garth]

Garth....there is a difference between 1 ATM relative and absolute. 1 ATM fsw = 33ft (we were in a quarry...so if you want to get technical it was really 34 feet of fresh water). Whether 33 fsw is ACTUALLY 2 ATM absolute is an irrelevant point.

not actually. sorry to post a million things in a row but

... this is diving. and in technical diving 33 fsw is actually 2ATA. It is relevant as you go further into your class you will talk about maximum operating depths and will need to know this. I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'd like you to get good instruction. The way you talk about the class makes it clear that your aren't getting it. Whether it is you or the instructor I don't know.