NAUI DIR tech course content (kinda split from DIR variances)

[Jason B]

Line markers: you just made my point. Why use a "cookie" what information does it give you? None. A cookie provides a tie off place for your line, nothing more. An arrow, on the other hand provides a tie off and critical piece of information. Which would you prefer?

The cookie is not used as a tie off point. The spool is tied into the line to make your jump and a cookie is placed on the exit side, giving the person that installed it a navigational direction towards their exit but not meaning anything to others.



rjack, I made that page when I realized the problem with what I was taught. I read a post from you on TDS describing it so I made that page and sent it to a GUE T2/C2 buddy of mine to see if I was following your description. So while I made the page, it was based of a post I read from you.

 

[lamont]

Well, i think we've established that there's enough differences between NAUI Tech and DIR that this thread no longer belongs in the DIR Practitioners forum (and i'm getting PMs about it). The debate is definitely interesting, though. Since it seems to be compare/contrast between DIR/NAUI Tech and 50% of that is DIR-related I'm going to bump it to the parent DIR forum. If it goes further astray of DIR we can move to to the Technical Diving Forum...

 

[Dan Gibson]

There is no question that if the isolator is what needs to be shut down that you are correct in that it preserves the most gas. However, given most failures (at least that is what most of us have been taught) occurs on the right post, shutting the isolation first does not equate to saving more gas. Assuming saving half is sufficient on any given dive, then I could agree to this approach. Throwing out what many of us have been taught about failures; which failure actually happens the most in real life?

In a real gas loss scenario you are using valuable gas... not to mention your reaction has been "trained" to follow this pattern- rather than going for the most logical solution of shutting the isolator first to preserve the most gas. What kind of sense does that make?

 

[rjack321]

Throwing out what many of us have been taught about failures; which failure actually happens the most in real life?

In order of probability I would guess:
a 2nd stage free flow (IP creep or debris)
1st stage free flow (freezing)
1st stage bumped/knocked loose
Burst disks and neck o-rings are too small to count

 

[chickdiver]

Fine, I give up- I've had enough. You guys try having a conversation and trying to ecplain procedures when 3 people are simultaneously throwing questions at you and expecting pat answers. Often without benefit of any history or background.

I don't care what you all thin or where you think this belongs. I'm retiring in June anyway, since I have had it up to my eyeballs with internet divers.

 

[rjack321]

rjack, I made that page when I realized the problem with what I was taught. I read a post from you on TDS describing it so I made that page and sent it to a GUE T2/C2 buddy of mine to see if I was following your description. So while I made the page, it was based of a post I read from you.

that is too much. We gotta dive together sometime!

Oh and

 

[rjack321]

Fine, I give up- I've had enough. You guys try having a conversation and trying to ecplain procedures when 3 people are simultaneously throwing questions at you and expecting pat answers. Often without benefit of any history or background.

I don't care what you all thin or where you think this belongs. I'm retiring in June anyway, since I have had it up to my eyeballs with internet divers.

Sorry to hear your upset.

 

[chickdiver]

The cookie is not used as a tie off point. The spool is tied into the line to make your jump and a cookie is placed on the exit side, giving the person that installed it a navigational direction towards their exit but not meaning anything to others.



rjack, I made that page when I realized the problem with what I was taught. I read a post from you on TDS describing it so I made that page and sent it to a GUE T2/C2 buddy of mine to see if I was following your description. So while I made the page, it was based of a post I read from you.

Ohhh.. I seeee.. so without tying your jump spool into the cookie, your jump tie in can slide all over the place. Don't laugh- seen it happen too many times to count- that's why you tie into a marker.

Come on guys, take the blinders off and think for a minute. Just who, exactly, do you think is placing and maintaining the "permanent" markers in systems? I'll tell you- some systems get distance markers placed when it's surveyed. Some get markers placed when people lay line. These get old, break, fall off and get moved. Then, sometimes, they get replaced by people who notice it needs to be doen (have done it myself in places). The point is.. are you willing to bet YOUR LIFE on them? I am not. I'll grant you that I am a product of an age when there were far fewer cave divers and far less reliance on "permanent" markers- but I refuse to trust them. You guys are certainly welcome to if you like.

 

[rjack321]

Who says we're relying on markers we have not personally verified?

I drop a cookie (and my teammates do too) when we encounter the first arrow pointing "in" after they have changed directions.

Otherwise I am keeping track of the arrow sizes, colors, distinctive labelling, directions, whether they are marking a jump and also unmarked jumps. All on my way in. Those "permanent" arrows serve as gas and time checkpoints on the way out (as well as distinctive cave features).

 

[Rainer]

Well that proved useful...

Shame.