Narc'd? First Deep Dive...

[undefined]

I have yet to feel truly "narc'd", yet in no way do I think I am immune or otherwise resistant to it. Beyond 100fsw I find that everything is a little slower. Not the same as drinking alcohol, just that my movement is slowed and I breath slower. Some of this can be attributed to the lack of surge as you descend beyond a couple of atmospheres, but I figure this is my response to being "narc'd" - I purposely slow my movements down and try to ensure that I have situational awareness at all times as I am anticipating some martini effect, while those actions may in fact be the martini effect in action.

 

[kalidor's8]

Seems like narcing tends to bring alot of debate lol. I have only been on a few of fairly deep dives and gotten narc'ed on 2 of them. The first one was total paniky and the second was the typical martini effect. My buddy who has logged over 100 dives says he also has never suffered narcosis and is a little jealous of me. lol Since my first episode I am not as comfortable with deep diving, but I am trying to work through my fears. Maybe I will get past it soon. I will try the mental preparation next time and see if that helps at all.

 

[timle]

My first dive to ~130 I didn't feel much different - but everything was much louder. My thinking and actions stayed rather clear. However I few weeks ago on a dive to only 85 feet I felt narc'd and had to fight off the tunnel vision and single tracked thought process. A repeat dive that same day to that same depth felt like all the others before - clear headed - to my great relief. It absolutely can vary dive to dive.

 

[Cheekymonkey]

I reguarly dive to 120+ feet int he key sand in the local area down here in Florida, always with moderate to good visibility, I have never had a feeling of beign narced doign those dives, accept for once at 130 when I had to remind myself to slow down my breathing, which was partly just excitement.
When I took my tech classes, I was in a different enviroment. At forty fathom grotto, it was deep dives with visitbility that was very low compared to waht I was used too. I was narced a fair amount at 120 there, and was absolutely narced out of my mind at 150 when on air and nitrox mixes.

 

[Drewski]

When I took my tech classes, I was in a different enviroment. At forty fathom grotto, it was deep dives with visitbility that was very low compared to waht I was used too. I was narced a fair amount at 120 there, and was absolutely narced out of my mind at 150 when on air and nitrox mixes.

Exactly. It's often the conditions and task loading that contribute to the problem. When you are "used" to a routine, you can prepare yourself mentally for what will PROBABLY happen (even train for it). BUT, start adding "new" stuff (especially new training, equipment, etc., less "known" stuff) and unintended effects will occur. You lose the "focus" you have adjusted to and become susceptible to narcosis.

“Focus” is the reason why NASA trains astronauts again and again and AGAIN in the NBL prior to a mission. The stuff becomes "routine" and requires less consideration. This prevents mistakes and “issues.”

IMO, this is also why the Andrea Doria continues to claim a number of lives each year. When sport divers started diving the Doria back in the 70s, the guys that first did it were TOUGH. They were doing it on AIR but many had Navy or commercial experience. They were prepared and knew how to handle it. Along came sport divers who used deep AIR on other dives and figured it qualified them for the Doria. Some could handle the depth, but not the stress and "issues." Problems happened and POW - fatalities began to occur. Eventually, the fatality “rate” decreased because the remaining divers gained experience and “wised up.”

Then came "vodoo gas." Heliox, then trimix. At first, the guys who used air and had already dived on the Doria started using the new gases. By now, they had gained significant experience. So, the new gases actually IMPROVED their safety record. But, trimix opened new opportunities to new divers and, AGAIN, because this new generation of divers thought they could handle the depth, a flood of new divers started diving the Doria. And, predictably, AGAIN, they forgot about stress and "issues" and POW - fatalities increased AGAIN. I remember reading a post on SB not too long back that described the Doria as “no big deal” anymore, because “we’re going a LOT deeper.” Again, the poster is confusing depth with “difficulty” and clearly hasn’t experienced the relationship between the two.

My point to this should be obvious. It's NOT the gas, training, equipment or anything else that matters - all that's GREAT. It's the EXPERIENCE. To go deep you need to TRAIN and I don't mean in the classroom, in a pond or in a 60 FT "quarry." Progressively deeper, longer and more difficult ocean dives are what prepare you (no offense to you Great Lakes folks, I consider them oceans in this case). Confined water is for practicing “technique.” Ocean diving is what makes the difference.

Making any type of blanket statement suggesting that "helium based gases" might be the solution to deep diving really doesn't address the bigger issue.

Just my thoughts...

 

[Cheekymonkey]

Yep, glad I coudl be of some help with a good example .

Being a forensic chemistry student though, i've been spending alot of time learning about toxicology, often relating to drugs. In addition to the "tolerance" that many people gain with marijuana and alchahol over time, which is actually not a tolerance at all, but just the brain compensating for the effects so that they look and act more sober than they are. Which is I think the kind of tolerance you gain to being narced, you know it will happen, you prepare for it, and you do it often enough that you compensate for the effects and for the most part you are capable, just as a drunk that drinks often might not appear drunk because his body compensates for the intoxication with a wider stance so he doesnt tip over, and by intentionally speaking more quietly when he knows the intoxication makes him loud.

But there is a real form of tolerance that people get to drugs and alchahol over time, which is basically the destruction of the receptors for that particular compound in the brain. I'm curious to know how the Nitrogen and or Oxygen react with the brain under pressure to cause narcosis, if they react similar to many narcotics, than people can in fact build up a real tolerance through repeated exposure, although in reality that would jsut be the narcosis destroying receptors on the brain. ?

Anyone know the answer to that , because I am quite curious.

 

[Drewski]

Since you're into the science thing, check out this paper. There is also a reference to the 1965 Milner and Mount study pertaining to diver "perception" concerning narcosis.

Interesting reading...

 

[Cheekymonkey]

ty Drewski ggonna check it out now

 

[diver 85]

So I did my first deep dive over the weekend, to around 126'
I definitely felt the martini law in effect; however, my buddy, with many dives under his belt, denied having ever felt "narc'd". Was this just machismo (LOL) or do some people really not feel the effects? Anyone?

I've been on many a dive deeper than 100' & can honestly state I've never narced...Wife just walked thru, I asked her & she said also no narc'ing for her....Affects different ones different ways, IMO....

 

[Cheekymonkey]

Just read the parts I was intersted in, and the conclusion... thanks alot for that, didnt really get to the toxicolgy topic I was intersted in, but I found the results interesting. Seemed that many times they were experiencing the effects more profoundly on the 2nd dive, which is definently soemthing I have experienced myself.