Mr Carcharodon
Contributor
SeaJay’s report! I have not heard his name in a long time, but it was where my interest in Fundies started. Funny that reading that was so memorable.
My Venture into GUE - Another view
- Thread starter Jax
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I posted a list of some of the old reports, including SJ's a few pages back if you want a refresher.
InTheDrink
Contributor
I posted a list of some of the old reports, including SJ's a few pages back if you want a refresher.
Hi CD, you couldn't post a link to this thread please could you? I'm travelling and on tapatalk so difficult to locate earlier threads.
Cheers,
John
ScubaSteve
Wow.....what a DB
InTheDrink
Contributor
cheers steve, made for interesting and amusing reading whilst languishing in Singapore airport
J
OkiMike
Contributor
Boy! 27 pages of forums sure makes for a lot of reading!
I hope you'll oblige a few comments.
While I realize this may not be possible in all locations, in the Fundamentals classes I've interned on (and even the ITC itself), participants were given access to computers and time to submit their QA forms online while another classmate was called out for their private evaluation with the instructor. This, I think, is a neat solution that guarantees all QAs are in even before the class is over.
As for the class itself, if it's any consolation, I came into my Fundamentals course in 2006 with just the bare minimum of required dives and my equipment had only seen one dive on it the day before the class (albeit a singles setup and in a 3mm wetsuit). I had just begun diving about 3 months prior and, being the single guy that I was, I came into the class pretty confident in my abilities as a newly minted PADI Rescue diver.
I knew I wanted to progress into technical diving at almost any cost, so it didn't bother me to sell all of my recently purchased "recreational gear" and invest in a whole different set of what we all know now of us as the DIR configuration. All it took was a friendly chat with the local dive shop couple (who were both themselves GUE RB80 divers but taught for a few other organizations) who listened to my goals and explained to me the various agency paths I could take to achieve them, as well as the pros and cons of each path. I listened to their advice, did a bit of forum reading, and finally decided to take the plunge with GUE.
The course itself was a rude awakening and, to the extent that I was miserable and frustrated, I was that way because of my own ego. But make no mistake about it, it's exactly what I paid for, and exactly what I wanted.
By the end of the course, I walked away with a Provisional pass and, even then, it took me right up to the six month limit to finally get my Rec pass, and a further number of months to get the tech pass. But, boy, what a feeling of accomplishment!
My teacher's full time job was actually an active duty Air Force pilot so it's conceivable that a little military attitude made its way into the course. However, he was very clear that the standards were GUE's and were there for the very reason that the type of diving I was pursuing required it, and he was very clear in demonstrating that any attention to detail was out of concern for his students' safety and not because he wanted to be a hardass. (He is actually one of most gracious guys I know and turned out to be an invaluable dive buddy and mentor as I progressed up through Tech 1, Tech 2, and later, the ITC.). Moreover, I actually never felt like he was being a hardass throughout the course anyway.
So I can definitely appreciate and empathize with the desire to "want the pass" from the outset, and the resulting feelings that come with not being able to achieve it (or, in my case, not even come close). But, I hope you'll agree that it's easier for the organization to maintain one standard for everyone rather than hold a different one from those who just want to be recreational and another for those who want to progress further.
And speaking of different standards, as I'm sure you now know, GUE has three levels of Recreational diver programs now in various stages of completion. Maybe this is more along the lines of what you were expecting?
I hope you'll oblige a few comments.
While I realize this may not be possible in all locations, in the Fundamentals classes I've interned on (and even the ITC itself), participants were given access to computers and time to submit their QA forms online while another classmate was called out for their private evaluation with the instructor. This, I think, is a neat solution that guarantees all QAs are in even before the class is over.
As for the class itself, if it's any consolation, I came into my Fundamentals course in 2006 with just the bare minimum of required dives and my equipment had only seen one dive on it the day before the class (albeit a singles setup and in a 3mm wetsuit). I had just begun diving about 3 months prior and, being the single guy that I was, I came into the class pretty confident in my abilities as a newly minted PADI Rescue diver.
I knew I wanted to progress into technical diving at almost any cost, so it didn't bother me to sell all of my recently purchased "recreational gear" and invest in a whole different set of what we all know now of us as the DIR configuration. All it took was a friendly chat with the local dive shop couple (who were both themselves GUE RB80 divers but taught for a few other organizations) who listened to my goals and explained to me the various agency paths I could take to achieve them, as well as the pros and cons of each path. I listened to their advice, did a bit of forum reading, and finally decided to take the plunge with GUE.
The course itself was a rude awakening and, to the extent that I was miserable and frustrated, I was that way because of my own ego. But make no mistake about it, it's exactly what I paid for, and exactly what I wanted.
By the end of the course, I walked away with a Provisional pass and, even then, it took me right up to the six month limit to finally get my Rec pass, and a further number of months to get the tech pass. But, boy, what a feeling of accomplishment!
My teacher's full time job was actually an active duty Air Force pilot so it's conceivable that a little military attitude made its way into the course
. However, he was very clear that the standards were GUE's and were there for the very reason that the type of diving I was pursuing required it, and he was very clear in demonstrating that any attention to detail was out of concern for his students' safety and not because he wanted to be a hardass. (He is actually one of most gracious guys I know and turned out to be an invaluable dive buddy and mentor as I progressed up through Tech 1, Tech 2, and later, the ITC.). Moreover, I actually never felt like he was being a hardass throughout the course anyway.So I can definitely appreciate and empathize with the desire to "want the pass" from the outset, and the resulting feelings that come with not being able to achieve it (or, in my case, not even come close). But, I hope you'll agree that it's easier for the organization to maintain one standard for everyone rather than hold a different one from those who just want to be recreational and another for those who want to progress further.
And speaking of different standards, as I'm sure you now know, GUE has three levels of Recreational diver programs now in various stages of completion. Maybe this is more along the lines of what you were expecting?
There are different standards however. GUE-F has "rec" and "tech" passes within the same course, while the Rec3 course is effectively "Tech1-lite" for divers not ready for the full Tech1 course and its standards.
Pesonally I think it would be clearer, less ambiguous, and help build classes without divergent goals if; Recreational GUE-F students took the primer instead and those students wishing to go on to Tech1 or Cave1 took Fundementals in doubles with a canister light etc for a "tech pass".
OkiMike
Contributor
Yes, of course. I re-read my post and I guess I was referring to an overall standard between the Fundamental's rec and tech passes. I think Jax might argue that even the "Rec" pass standard was higher than expected and perhaps wasn't as prepared from the outset for all that it entailed.
In addition, since the purpose of Fundamentals was really to gateway students into GUE who would then go on to pursue higher levels of technical diving, her feelings were likely of the exact type that pushed GUE into developing their actual three-part Recreational program.
Addition: As per your final comments, I imagine we'll see a change in time over the types of students who take Fundamentals once the Recreational courses become fully mature (and here, I refer to the much anticipated Rec 2, which is the one to watch out for). As you can imagine though, the time and money involved is quite different between the Fundamentals and Rec programs, so people may still opt for Fundies as a shortcut into the agency, especially if they are already accomplished divers and don't feel like jumping "back" into a Rec 1 program.
How are you seeing the Primer courses run in your area? Do you think a lot of recreational divers are comfortable doing only the Primer and using that workshop as a way to add DIR components into their diving?
So far, what I'm seeing of the Primer is that it's being used by people who intend to do Fundies, but are dubious about their readiness.
I think the Primer would have a fabulous role for the people who have no intention of moving on to tech training, but would like to work on polishing skills under an instructor's eye. But I don't think awareness of the class has gotten out there, like the awareness of Fundies has.
I think the Primer would have a fabulous role for the people who have no intention of moving on to tech training, but would like to work on polishing skills under an instructor's eye. But I don't think awareness of the class has gotten out there, like the awareness of Fundies has.
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