My Stage Diving Strategy

[boulderjohn]

The jump from the Grand/Ho Tul line onto the Paso line is well within the cave zone. There's no logical reason for this jump to be 75 or 80ft. If it were me I would be happy to T these two line together but that wont happen either.

I wasted a lot of gas (and thus dive time) trying to connect those lines based on someone's inaccurate description of how I could find it.

 

[rjack321]

I wasted a lot of gas (and thus dive time) trying to connect those lines based on someone's inaccurate description of how I could find it.

As I recall there are << > arrows at that spot pointing to Ho tul and Grand.
Coming from Grand you jump 90degrees to the right then curve around the right hand side of a giant bee hive blob. The Paso line is ahead at roughly 1 or 2 o'clock.

 

[kensuf]

There was another recent (and highly suspicious) death in that area because of a diver getting lost. I believe the big gap is due to the theory that it is unsafe to have cave lines visible within a cavern zone, and since there is a nearby cenote, that qualifies.

I am not a believer in that theory. There was a thread a few years ago in the Cave Divers Forum about extending the cave line at Jackson Blue into the cavern area. The people opposing it simply repeated the theory that unqualified people entering the cavern area might be tempted to follow the cave line into the cave. The people supporting that idea listed about 7 total benefits, and they argued convincingly that it was actually safer to have the line there. No one opposed to the idea even attempted to refute any of the arguments in favor of extending the line, but their opinion still prevailed.

I believe that area would be much safe with permanent, well marked lines, but I have no expectation that will happen.

I've never dove this system, but agree with you about the lines. Worst case scenario, an OW diver finds their way into the cave, the line with the big pointy things will lead him out.

 

[boulderjohn]

I've never dove this system, but agree with you about the lines. Worst case scenario, an OW diver finds their way into the cave, the line with the big pointy things will lead him out.

...and that line with the big pointy things will still be there when that time comes. If, on the other hand, the OW diver follows a temporary line placed there by a cave diver connecting to the permanent line deep inside the cave, that line may be gone when the diver tries to exit.

 

[rjack321]

The fat blue lines mark the edges of the cavern zone at Grand and at Ho tul. The long jump from the Grand-Ho tul Line to the Grand Line is shown in green. The deceased entered at Calimba (aka Kalimba) and jumped to the Bos Chen line (orange). When they returned to the jump spot they (erroneously) turned left and came down the red paso de lagarto line. The arrows on that line point towards Grand despite there not being a continuous line to Grand. The green jump is (or used to be, its been awhile for me) marked by double arrows << going to Ho tul and a single arrow > going to Grand.

This is at least the second multiple fatality that has erroneously swam all the way down the Paso de Lagarto line and arrived at the arrow pointing towards the Grand line but not known where they were or how to actually reverse that green jump since your cannot see the Grand Ho tul line from the Paso line.

 

[boulderjohn]

View attachment 492445
The fat blue lines mark the edges of the cavern zone at Grand and at Ho tul. The long jump from the Grand-Ho tul Line to the Grand Line is shown in green. The deceased entered at Calimba (aka Kalimba) and jumped to the Bos Chen line (orange). When they returned to the jump spot they (erroneously) turned left and came down the red paso de lagarto line. The arrows on that line point towards Grand despite there not being a continuous line to Grand. The green jump is (or used to be, its been awhile for me) marked by double arrows << going to Ho tul and a single arrow > going to Grand.

This is at least the second multiple fatality that has erroneously swam all the way down the Paso de Lagarto line and arrived at the arrow pointing towards the Grand line but not known where they were or how to actually reverse that jump since your cannot see the Grand Ho tul line from the Paso line.

Thanks! This clears things up for me.

As you noted earlier, there is no good reason for that huge gap represented by the green line. What people cannot see from the map is that you cannot clearly see your way from one end of that gap to the other. I mentioned the trouble I had connecting that space when I did it after receiving less than stellar advice on how to find it. I probably used twice as much line as necessary and wasted a ton of time wandering around the speleothems until I made the connection.

 

[rjack321]

Yea its a long gap and there's a big 15ft diameter beehive in the way. Coming from Grand you jump right and curve around the beehive on your lefthand side kind of like the "C" I doodled on there in green. I have no idea why that jump is so long, the Grand Ho Tul line gets a ton of traffic and sure you don't want people straying onto the Paso line by accident. But a 70ft blind jump is too long and imprudent. The terminal arrow on the Paso line could also be oversized so it was large enough to say "70ft jump to Grand Line". So at least if you screw up and get this far down the incident pit you have some idea of how to save yourself. Nobody is diving Kalimba or anywhere back on the Paso line who hasn't at some point in their training or experience previously dove Grand.

This was not a stage bottle use error - other than the stages allowed them to get this far into the system.

 

[kafkaland]

Ok, if this was my cave.... this is how I would change the lines: make Grand to Paso de Lagarto and on to the Kalimba T the main line. Make the current cut-off from Grand to Ho-Tul the main access to Ho-Tul, with one simple jump from the Grand main line. And turn the current main line left turn to Ho-Tul withthe triple arrows into a short jump, very clearly marked as the shortest way from Paso de Lagarto to open air. That would provide for one continuous line all the way from Kalimba to Grand, with just one clearly marked T. It would, however, add a jump to Ho-Tul, but shorten the distance from Grand.

 

[rjack321]

I agree with you about making a T at the Kalimba/Bos Chen/Paso intersection (old snap & gap spot)

Not sure I agree with you about making the line from Grand into Paso continuous. The Grand to Ho Tul dive and running a gap reel at Ho Tul is a very common intro level dive that helps introduce beginners to the concept of traverses, gaps and changing arrow directions.

 

[kafkaland]

I agree with you about making a T at the Kalimba/Bos Chen/Paso intersection (old snap & gap spot)

Not sure I agree with you about making the line from Grand into Paso continuous. The Grand to Ho Tul dive and running a gap reel at Ho Tul is a very common intro level dive that helps introduce beginners to the concept of traverses, gaps and changing arrow directions.

Sorry if I haven't been clear about what I was proposing - and I think it works as well for intro divers, who are not supposed to do traverses or gaps anyway.

There is already a very well-marked T at the end of the Kalimba line - the snap and gap so ok g gone - so no change needed there. Then you reach after a few minutes the Box Chen jump. Continuous to Paso de Lagarto, jump to Box Chen. Already very well marked, no change needed there. The main line comtinues sharp to the right, eventually hitting the jump to Much's Maze - where probably the incident chain started in this accident. The arrow points to Grand, which is correct. Besides writing "Grand Cenote" on the arrow, I don't know what could be done here that's not confusing. After the jump to Lithium Sunset and a sharp left turn, you now reach Paso de Lagarto, and the end of the current line. With a very long jump to the Grand-Ho Tul line. I would like to make that continuous, all the way to Grand. With no Ts.
So when you come from Grand, you have first the (existing) jumpmto the cut-off to Ho-Tul. I'd like to make that cut-off line the main access to Ho-Tul, continuous after that first jump. And make the current line from the triple arrow to Ho-Tul a cut-off jump instead.
This has a couple of advantages, especially it makes the traverse from Kalimba essentially continuous, except for the jump to the cavern line at Grand. Also, it shortens the dive from Grand to Ho-Tul, and Cuzan-Nah as the old cut-off is now the main access. I'd also like to revisit the wisdom of having the gap there, but that's a different issue.
For intro divers, the dive from Grand would be up to Paso de Lagarto, as far as they can go on sixth. Right now, following the main line to Ho-Tul, most won't make it on sixths to the gap anyway, and I think the line at Paso is nicer anyway, so they won't really lose anything. But I think these changes would make things safer (get rid of that monster jump) and easier (not much of cleanup after traverse) for everyone else.