My journey into tech

[tomfcrist]

I don't do stupid sh*t, during either diving or shooting. I'm actually an NRA certified Range Safety Officer. That carries over into diving. If I was an idiot, I would have already been penetrating wrecks. But I'm not, so I haven't.

Not assuming that you do. That being said, life is full of temptation. Experience, particularly bad experience, can I talk you into doing things that are unsafe. As an extreme example, read John Chattertons blog post "the experienced bad diver".

 

[MaxBottomtime]

How do diving skills under water translate to those skills, which are done on the surface?

We had panicked divers at the surface as well as at depth. I would be hesitant to take a relatively new diver to thirty feet and have someone go nuts on them. I would likely have to make a real rescue.

 

[KenGordon]

Is this panicking dver thing actually realistic? Has anyone met one? Are there documented cases of rescuers getting their mask pulled off by a victim?

OP. Just go diving. Wait for the course to do the course. The course is the place to learn. If you attempt to learn it all beforehand from people on the internet why do you need a course?

 

[gbf]

The most important skil!:

The ability to generate large amounts of $filthy lucre$ at random, unpredictable intervals.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .

OP. Just go diving. Wait for the course to do the course. The course is the place to learn. If you attempt to learn it all beforehand from people on the internet why do you need a course?

It's certainly possible to work on things like buoyancy, trim, a frog kick, etc., before the course--and if one begins the course with good skills, so much the better--but more generally I do agree with the sentiment that the course is designed for people starting from near zero. There is no reason to fear going into the course knowing nothing, and moreover, TOO much practice beforehand can ingrain bad habits. Every instructor has certain ways they want you to do certain things, and if you practiced it some other way until it was ingrained you will have to adjust it.

I'm not even sure I knew what "trim" was before Fundies--and I didn't even get a provisional pass the first time around because I was truly awful. Oh well. At least I provided a blank slate for my instructor.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I also want to work on getting myself more squared away period before I start on SM. And more dives under my belt. I might play with SM in the pool over the winter with friends who dive SM, but I'm not sure. SM rig arrived last night. I only bought it now as I found a good deal used. I don't want to form any bad habits so I'll wait until the SM class to really mess with it.

Got a response last night on my email to the local tech/SM instructor. Finally found out the difference between the SDI/TDI SM classes, too, as I'd wondered.

Instructor suggested I take the SDI SM class first as that teaches SM basics, helps you get everything adjusted properly, etc. Especially since I've not already been diving SM. Then TDI SM later. I was also told that buoyancy and frog kick are important skills for the beginning tech classes, which I already knew to work on.

TDI ITT is for BM doubles. TDI SM teaches the same skills as ITT, but for SM.

As for when to take the classes, he said when I feel comfortable in the water. So I'm going to stick to my plan of SDI SM next summer. How I do with SM will determine when I take the TDI SM class.

Having more dives is never a bad thing.

That's actually not exactly correct. The difference between TDI SM and SDI is that the TDI cert adds a stage/deco bottle. TDI Intro to Tech can be taught in a single cylinder with a stage/pony bottle, backmount doubles, or sidemount. TDI SM is not the same as Intro. There are different skills and classroom. Personally, I like to have a student try several SM rigs because none will do everything for everybody.

If you are going to do sidemount go ahead and do it. Don't worry about Intro or even Tech SM until you have 50-100 dives in basic sidemount. (Don't even waste money on BM doubles unless you plan to dive BM and SM regularly. I once had 4 sets of BM doubles. Now I have zero. All got broken down into SM tanks. If I ever do need to use BM doubles I'll rent a set or two.)

At that point if your sidemount skills are good, adding a stage is not a big deal. You'll add a 30 or a 40. No need for the TDI SM class. Go ahead and sign up for AN/DP with an instructor that teaches it in sidemount.
I've done that with several students and it's worked nicely and saved them the cost of the TDI SM class.

If you are doing SM to go tech, the TDI AN/DP class is going to be better anyway because you'll be using your deco cylinder. If you're not doing deco there is no need to carry an extra bottle which again makes the TDI SM class unnecessary.

I was one of the editors and a technical contributor to the SDI/TDI Sidemount materials. I pretty much exclusively dive SM now. Even for OW checkouts. I used a single tank rig in open water last weekend for a couple dives just because I wanted to empty some cylinders and the max depth was going to be 20 ft. It felt strange being in open water with only one tank.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

There are a couple distinctly different ways to do the back kick, and the fins make a big difference. The one I usually use requires a large sidewall for its propelling surface, and split fins pretty much all lack that. The other method uses the fins' surface area as the propelling force. I was once teaching a scuba refresher class with a student who came in with the wrong size fins--much too large. (He had evidently walked away from his last dive with someone else's fins.) He was able to use mine, and I used his Atomic Split fins, even though they were so big the spring straps would not stay over my heel. Amazingly enough, I was able to back kick surprising well with them, using the second method. The key was their stiffness. In contrast, I tried to teach someone to back kick using floppy fins, and I could see immediately that it was hopeless.

A couple weeks ago I gave my fins to a lady to try in the pool that I was working with on her back kick. Hers were way too floppy. Gave her my HOG tech fins and within 15 minutes she was swimming laps backwards. Her hubby was pissed. He's been trying to get his down for a couple weeks. But I now had no fins as hers would not fit me. Tried to go forward with no fins and we all know what that's like. So on a whim, I turned around and used my back kick stroke. Surprisingly it worked much better than expected. I came to realize that with a proper stroke you can actually get some momentum going due to the surface area of your calves as you bring them back.

 

[Marie13]

@Jim Lapenta Thanks! More to think about ...bad knees so no BM at all. I see folks hauling BM doubles around at the quarry and my knees just ache.

 

[boulderjohn]

I came to realize that with a proper stroke you can actually get some momentum going due to the surface area of your calves as you bring them back.

i was originally taught to back kick (or rather, learned it on my own watching videos) by turning the ankles in such a way as to make the top of the fins the propelling surface, essentially a reverse frog kick. It is an awkward motion and hard to learn. I then learned to do it by flicking the fins outward, using the wide sidewalls of a typical tech fin as the propelling surface. It doesn't sound like it should work with so little surface area, but it does. When I learned it, I was with one of my students, who I had taught the other way. I wondered aloud how it could work, and he, being a college professor dealing with such matters, explained it to me. In the formula for the power you get with such a kick (which he, of course, knew off the top of his head), all factors are simple multipliers except for one--velocity. Velocity is squared first, and then multiplied. That means the far greater velocity generated by that simple flick more than makes up for the diminished surface area. The same would be true of the surface areas of your feet and calves.

 

[Diver0001]

What skills do I need to have down cold before I begin any tech training?

Marie, I read through some of the responses and I'm going to break with the herd here....

Quite a number of people have told you that you need to have buoyancy, trim and propulsion sorted BEFORE you go into technical training.

I'll certainly agree with a part of that, but not the way it was put. If you a going into technical training then you shouldn't need to learn anything about buoyancy control. Breaking that down, you should know how to do a proper buoyancy check and you should already be in the habit of doing them whenever you change gear configurations AND 1 or 2 times a year using your "usual" gear. Your buoyancy needs change over time so checking it from time to time should be in your DNA before you take any technical training. Others were already saying this.

However, I will take it a step further.... It is my opinion that your buoyancy control needs to be good enough that you can operate somewhat competently in mid water, maintaining depth and direction while performing a 3rd task within a fairly narrow bandwidth of error even if there is ZERO visual reference. In other words, you need to be somewhat competent at "instrument flying". If you can't do that or you can't manage your depth and direction and a 3rd task (communication, dealing with a stage bottle, launching a buoy etc.) while mid water in limited visibility (in the green/blue) then you don't belong in technical training. I don't want that to sound harsh but it surprises me how many people take (and pass) technical courses when they are not good at "instrument flying". I once took a Trimix course with a guy, who is a friend and someone I really like, but who shouldn't have been there to start with. He was a fairly advanced cave diver but was a "concern" during open water ascents because he wasn't really good at instrument flying. Apparently in a cave these skills are not really relevant because you're not in a "zero reference" context. Eventually he learned it but not until both myself (as buddy) and the instructor grew a few more grey hairs because of it. You don't want to be that guy.

The big question is if you need these skills coming IN to the course or when you are DONE with the course. My firm conviction is that you need those particular skills coming IN to the course because there are real safety issues during training if you don't . They don't need to be perfect coming in, but the course should involve refining those skills and making them "tighter", not initially teaching them.

Trim.... I don't agree with the herd. Yes, you should understand and already be applying the concepts but technical training will involve using gear that you are not familiar with so BEING ABLE to apply those concepts is important but being in perfect trim from day one may not be realistic, depending on how many new configuration elements you have to adjust to. Personally I see "perfect trim" as a process of experimentation and creativity to some extent. There are some basic concepts that (I would hope) every OW student understands but there is no magic here. Yes, it's important that you know how to trim but if you come IN to the course out of trim (for example, because of new gear) that's not a problem. This will get sorted out. What's important about trim is that you're good enough at it that it doesn't take a long time to get it sorted out.

Finally propulsion. Here I also break with the herd. What you need coming IN to this training is full competence in at least ONE fin stroke. If you don't have a good enough fin stroke to swim efficiently as a recreational diver then it wll be like you are tied to an anchor in a technical class..... However, unlike Buoyancy (that needs to be there) or trim (the knowledge of which needs to be there), learning improved propulsion technique is actually something that is not a prerequisite for starting the training. Obviously when you are DONE the training, you're going to want to have those skills, but they can be taught in the context of teh course.

..... and there I go tipping my hand..... What I'm saying through all of this is that you need to be able to distinguish between

a) needing full competence (some degree of skill "automation" that goes further than needing much more than refinement) -- in this post "buoyancy control"
b) needing full awareness (knowing what you don't know but being competent to some degree) -- in this post, "trim"
c) needing training (not knowing what you don't know.... perhaps to the point of being unaware of the possibilities) -- in this post, finning technique.

When you look at it this when then it becomes clear.

The final bit of the puzzel is to understand if something is the prerequisite or the result of the course. It is SOOOOOOO important for your learning (and focus) to understand this. The skills you need to start the course are ALWAYS (if the course is any good) going to be different than the skills you have when you finish!

It sounds obvious but it's amazing how many people (even some teachers) don't "get" this.