My hose setup, am I close?

[ucfdiver]

OK ... I'll stand corrected then. Do they dive solo? And if not, what's their approach to dealing with air share?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'm not sure you can categorize "they". I know some on each side of the fence, but most hardcore SM guys I know do tend to solo dive. The thought is that they never need to share gas since each buddy (if there is one) is sm and therefore cannot lose more than 1/2 their remaining gas supply, leaving enough to exit. I disagree with this, but it's very wide spread.

 

[Ste Wart]

It is a part of IANTD standards to remove and replace cylinders, not to swap. And that is a skill in Advanced Nitrox, Advanced Recreational Trimix, Normoxic Trimix, etc, not in the sidemount course.

No, there is no removal and replace cylinder on Adv Nitrox; I should know I teach the course. Remove & Replace is Technical diver onward.

Pg 69 skills 6- 8 are removal of cylinder for OW Sidemount. Hence why I asked the question.

You would be better off to argue points you are knowledgeable and experienced in. You are demonstrating your lack of knowledge of sidemount quite clearly here.

I mentioned openly I don't dive sidemount. I don't claim to be knowledgeable in this area. I do expect questions answered with civility regardless. Would you be so quick to dismiss if I was grilling you while I was taking a course with you? I doubt it.

There's a very good set of video(s), on Youtube, by Lamar Hires (CEO of DiveRite, and sidemount pioneer) on provisioning sidemount rigs, and he makes a definitive distinction between "expedition" (open water), and "mission specific" (caving) rigging. Where short and long hoses are set up respectively. He never recommends passing a tank in either, rather explains the purpose of each rig, with assistance from a couple of other well accomplished side-mounters (one of whom is Agnes Milowka, recently passed).

That's what made me curious in the first place.

My basic argument is that a diver moves more efficiently when swimming solo, not attached to the long hose. That's all.

 

[FWADIVER]

My opinion, which is worth what you paid for it: Long hose SM is only necessary for diving mixed teams, I like to have it for reassurance, but a total gas failure should be probabilistically low enough to be a non issue. If you are sticking to the rule of thirds, you should always have enough gas left in the other cylinder to get yourself out, in fact you have a 50/50 chance depending on which tank failed to have more than enough. There is also the possibility of while air sharing to swap first stages, and to feather. If diving an all sidemount team, the need to actually share gas should be slim to none, could it happen? sure, you also could have every light the dive team is carrying fail simultaneously.... its just unlikely. Also a bit of interest, heinerth and kakuk recommend in their sidemount book that cylinders used in an overhead have the neck orings inspected and replaced on a 6month cycle... which i assume lowers the risk of extrusion further...

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

My opinion, which is worth what you paid for it: Long hose SM is only necessary for diving mixed teams, I like to have it for reassurance, but a total gas failure should be probabilistically low enough to be a non issue. If you are sticking to the rule of thirds, you should always have enough gas left in the other cylinder to get yourself out, in fact you have a 50/50 chance depending on which tank failed to have more than enough. There is also the possibility of while air sharing to swap first stages, and to feather. If diving an all sidemount team, the need to actually share gas should be slim to none, could it happen? sure, you also could have every light the dive team is carrying fail simultaneously.... its just unlikely. Also a bit of interest, heinerth and kakuk recommend in their sidemount book that cylinders used in an overhead have the neck orings inspected and replaced on a 6month cycle... which i assume lowers the risk of extrusion further...

Long hose is absolutely mandatory if you are diving in overheads. Since it tucks away and isn't an issue there is nothing wrong with it for OW. Where do you cow up with your 50/50 number. You better at all times know you have enough to get out. That's proper gas management and there is no excuse for not doing that properly. There should never be a 50/50 chance.

 

[Dive-aholic]

No, there is no removal and replace cylinder on Adv Nitrox; I should know I teach the course. Remove & Replace is Technical diver onward.

Page 40, skills 9 and 10.

Pg 69 skills 6- 8 are removal of cylinder for OW Sidemount. Hence why I asked the question.

Removal of cylinder does not indicate swap.

I mentioned openly I don't dive sidemount. I don't claim to be knowledgeable in this area. I do expect questions answered with civility regardless. Would you be so quick to dismiss if I was grilling you while I was taking a course with you? I doubt it.

You are an IANTD instructor and are questioning the standards, so yes, I would question you in the same manner. I don't see it as grilling, but if that's your perception, so be it.

 

[ucfdiver]

My basic argument is that a diver moves more efficiently when swimming solo, not attached to the long hose. That's all.

duh?

 

[LakeCountyDiver]

Long hose is absolutely mandatory if you are diving in overheads. Since it tucks away and isn't an issue there is nothing wrong with it for OW. Where do you cow up with your 50/50 number. You better at all times know you have enough to get out. That's proper gas management and there is no excuse for not doing that properly. There should never be a 50/50 chance.

Read the post again he isn't saying 50/50 you might run out he is saying 50/50 you will have MORE THEN ENOUGH as apposed to the bare bones 1/3... And the 50/50 comes from 2 tanks meaning there are only 2 options. It's simple math

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Read the post again he isn't saying 50/50 you might run out he is saying 50/50 you will have MORE THEN ENOUGH as apposed to the bare bones 1/3... And the 50/50 comes from 2 tanks meaning there are only 2 options. It's simple math

Its NEVER 50/50 If you know what your doing. Is that simple enough?

 

[LakeCountyDiver]

Its NEVER 50/50 If you know what your doing. Is that simple enough?

Not sure if FWADIVER's comment about 50/50 is too complex for you to wrap your head around but what he is stating in his post IT IS 50/50. Again it is simple math. I have read about alot of divers that "know what there doing" and have lost there lives because of different reasons. Nothing in life let alone diving is 100%... You say "NEVER" like it is supposed to mean something

Do yourself a favor and go back and read his post and remember to break down the big words ...

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Not sure if FWADIVER's comment about 50/50 is too complex for you to wrap your head around but what he is stating in his post IT IS 50/50. Again it is simple math. I have read about alot of divers that "know what there doing" and have lost there lives because of different reasons. Nothing in life let alone diving is 100%... You say "NEVER" like it is supposed to mean something

Do yourself a favor and go back and read his post and remember to break down the big words ...

Never is too complicated for you Are you saying you cant manage your gas so that you know you have enough? I ALWAYS know that I have enough, I owe that to the guys I dive with and my family. If I lose one bottle I WILL have enough to get out. That isnt 50/50, thats just called proper gas management. SM does reqiuire some effort into learning to do it safe. Do you even dive SM?