My first Rant - Do Not Endanger Me or Ruin My Dive. I'm steamed...

[kjunheart]

I can't tell y'all how much I love this board! I am glad people like Mo2vation "rant" because it lets people like me (newbie) see situations from the other side. I am one of the most analytical people you will ever meet so I want to do it right ... because it isn't only my life on the line. I have learned a lot just by reading what y'all have to say. So thanks!

Oh, and I am ALWAYS looking for a dive buddy. I just can't get enough!

Sandy

 

[Walter]

Sandy,

I'll make a deal with you. I'll PM you on all my planned (sometimes I just get up and go) dives. If you're available and want to join, you're welcome. You do the same.

 

[NurseShark]

DiverBuoy once bubbled...

Never allow someone else to make themselves or someone else your buddy. Even instructors or divemasters. It has to be your decision alone who you will entrust your life to and who you will take responsibility for. And this should only be done after you've had a chance to evaluate them. Never in an on-the-spot situation like a dive briefing, or donning gear, or at the mooring line on the surface, or even underwater (unless it's a rescue situation or scenario requiring life-or-death emergency response, but as this would end the dive anyway it clearly supercedes any issue of comfort.)

The key is advanced preparation. Having experienced this once you now know it can happen and are prepared in advance if it happens again. Next time speak up quickly and boldly. No one will be offended if you make your purpose clear. Now if you're already underwater it may end that dive, as in your case. But you must speak up back on the boat during the surface interval in order to prevent a repeat occurance.

My husband and I are new divers like kjunheart but wound up in a situation during our last two courses (AOW & Rescue) where we were buddied with someone we were uncomfortable diving with. I wish I had read your post Diverbuoy before we'd taken the classes, I would have felt much more comfortable telling the instructors that we didn't feel comfortable diving with our newly assigned "third". We did speak with the instructors after class about our concerns regarding the divers we were with. In the AOW our "buddy" told us he had problems with short term memory & couldn't remember what we were suppose to do on the dive, even after reviewing it 3 times prior to getting in the water! In our rescue class, the "buddy" seemed to go on overdrive in each scenario & wouldn't listen to anyone. He wound up 'beaching' three people on a rock during an unconscious diver tow to shore because he put his head down & just pushed until the group literally couldn't move, despite four people yelling at him & grabbing his arm to try to get his attention. During a search pattern dive where he was paired with my husband, my husband was counting kicks & he was suppose to be using the compass to navigate. My husband noted that they didn't seem to be making the appropriate pattern & took a closer look at the console this guy was staring intently at & giving direction signals from - it was his SPG! My husband took over all the navigating & when they surfaced he questioned the guy about what happened but he only shrugged & said he didn't have a compass!! On both occassions we were told by the instructors that the instructors were aware of the weaknesses of the other divers & that was why they had been "buddied" with us! We were told we were the strongest divers in the class & felt we could handle these people! In both cases, the instructors weren't in the water & could have buddied themselves with these weaker divers.

After reading this thread, I will never again let ANYONE in ANY SITUATION pair another diver with me unless I am comfortable with it. When you are taking a class, you go along with what the instructors do but from now on I won't let that influence who I dive with - my safety & my learning are at stake & I have paid for the course!!

Thanks everyone for this valuable lesson!

 

[divemistress]

Mo2vation once bubbled...
SIDEBAR: If you can’t don your rig on your own and get to the gate, find another sport/past-time/pursuit.

Mo2vation, how strictly do you define this? Where would you draw the line?

My scuba-diving orthopedist told me this week that my recovery from (arthroscopic) knee surgery has been great, but: Don't climb up a boat ladder wearing tank and weights. Should that bar me from diving?

On the other hand, I'm strong enough boost myself into a Zodiac -- which a lot of divers can't do. Should that bar them?

Over my diving years I've watched more than one person gear up while seated at the ladder. As long as that diver waits for the rest of the group to get in the water first, I don't see a problem.

What types of physical limitations should/shouldn't rule out a prospective diver? Anyone?

Do older people -- say 40-plus -- have different opinions than 20- and 30-year-olds? (I'm 42.)

DM

 

[Mo2vation]

I went back and forth as to whether to put that side bar into the thread.

I don't perceive you as being confrontational, but I've become pretty passionate about this, and my intent isn't to return your kind inquiry with fire. But as it was a rant and, as most rants go, only partially coherent - driven by emotion more than reason, lets roll with it.

I used to think there were different scenarios: If you're my dive buddy, or if you're simply on the same dive boat as me. But as I'm writing this, I'm thinking there is no difference. If you can't deal, we may need to scuttle the trip, we may have to dumb down the dive agenda for the entire boat, the DM may have to dive in and pull you out, etc. After some thought (maybe a minute's worth) here the deal:

If you can't pick your stuff up, on your own - and this takes many forms... (the overhead don I used to do...until my computer gave me a black eye, the 1-shoulder in don I used to do...until I moved to a BP/W, and the ever-attractive squat in front of the rig and stand up into my BP don I now do until I find something more attractive and functional) and get to the gate on your own, you need to come back when you can.

At the very least you need to have the strength to pick up and wear the stuff you're going to be, well, wearing. Of course all of the other in-water givens are taken here - the person can swim, is competent in their dive skills, has the basics wired, etc.

But minimum physical requirements - you gotta be able to handle the gear out of the water by yourself.

The swim step is another issue. Pitching swimstep, end of a 50 yard in-current surface swim, blah blah blah....there is some slack here. The last thing I want to see is some exhausted diver take a step to the chin and now we have a rescue issue.

My wife went to an HP80 for this reason. She was having issues shlepping a steel 100. She almost went to a 63, but she worked on her skills, became stronger and smarter and now I don't need to haul her into her stuff. 2 seasons ago, I had to help her up the steps at Catalina, now she's out on her own. Since we went dry this fall she went from 18# to 26# of lead...so its been tougher for her. But this past weekend she got, got out, no issues.

I expect the same from everyone else on the boat.

Ken

 

[Walter]

I don't want help with my gear - never have. OTOH, I've helped lots of folks over the years for one reason or another - bad back, elderly, not very strong, etc. I figure I'm paying my dues. I'm not going to stop diving, but I will continue to get older. Some day, in 40 or 50 years, I'm going to need help. When the time comes, it'll be my turn to get help from younger, healthier divers. OTOH, when that time comes, I plan to still be helping other divers however and whenever I can.

 

[divemistress]

it is another thread.

i started it as it appears now, erased it and started a new thread, then put it back here so you wouldn't think i was sneaking around behind your back.

and thank you for recognizing that i don't want to be confrontational. my apologies if anything i said indicated otherwise.

no. 1, i do strongly believe that if a person's physical condition endangers other divers, then that person should not dive. there we agree.

where we disagree is what kind of physical limitation/inadequacy/whatever is dangerous. not rather than devising a variety of scenarios, i'll say that walter's comments sum up my position.

cheers,

judy

p.s walter, 50 years from now, if my orthopod clears me for diving after a knee replacement, i promise i will carry your gear.

 

[Walter]

Judy,

It's karma. I like it working for me.

 

[Big-t-2538]

kjunheart once bubbled...

Oh, and I am ALWAYS looking for a dive buddy. I just can't get enough!
Sandy

Hmmm....I wonder what would happen if I took this line out of context and moved to the 'hottest female' thread.....hmmm
:evil:

 

[SDAnderson]

Seems simple enough to me...

Don't wait until the briefing to plan your dive. Start before you book the trip and you'll encounter fewer of these nasty little suprises.

• If you have a buddy and don't want another one, let the tour operator know when you book the dive and remind them as you board the boat. Tell the operator and the DM in a nice, friendly way, "we're diving together and don't want a third..."
  
• If you don't have a buddy and you need one, let the tour operator know when you book the dive and remind them as you board the boat. Tell the DM in a nice, friendly way, "I don't have a dive buddy, but I'm willing to follow you around to make sure you don't drown..."

No good will ever come from being paired with the odd man out - that's the DM's responsibility. The solo diver needing a buddy all too often turns out to be a photographer/rookie/mental patient. If you can't avoid being force-placed, get proactive and start picking your own buddy as soon as you can. Then you can tell the DM, "we're first time buddies and aren't comfortable with a third..."

This operator might be one to avoid, also. I'd definitely talk to them about your experience and ask them for suggestions. If you don't get answers that make sense, find another operator.

Steven